Dog tried to bite my baby

[UserICantThinkOfAUsername]

Morning all. So I've never had dogs, don't know much about them, never really trusted them either.

Yesterday at my PIL house one of the dogs tried to bite my 11 month olds nose in a completely unprovoked attack (she was just crawling next to the dog). Luckily my partner was quick and stopped the dog but she almost bit our LG nose. I didn't allow the dog near her the rest of the day. Previously, said dog has been very protective of my baby and gets upset when she cries etc so we are shocked she's tried biting her. But obviously now I do not trust the dog at all... I am also due our 3rd baby in September who PIL are the default childcare if I go into hospital (planning a homebirth). It's a very close family and we regularly go to their house for gatherings. AIBU to say I will not be going to their home anymore with children if said dog is there?

I’m very surprised a trained dog behaviour consultant would advise it’s OK for a crawling baby to be in the same space as a dog.

The dog should never be allowed in the room with the baby after this. I would not take my baby to the house if proper measures were not taken.

People are ridiculously trusting around dogs. I do not understand the modern approach of acting like dogs have soft teeth and rational thought processes. I grew up in a dog family, they were loved but they were accepted to be dogs - so we were careful.

This is the best advice and you have picked this posters advice out and rejected it.@livelyredjellybean is talking absolute crap.The dog did not behave in an 'unusual way', a vet check and a behavioural session is not required and not going to do much when it is not your dog. You are not going to be able to train someone else's dog. You have had your warning OP, heed it.

How your PIL reacted would be key to making any decision on them looking after your child/ren.

If they brushed it off then you have your answer and you cannot be sure they will keep the dog separate to the DC. Even if they say they will.

YANBU in being concerned about the dog.
We have a dog which was adopted when our eldest was 9 years of age, he's always been great with her, but it has become apparent he doesn't like children.
We've had a new baby and we've had to put controls in place to ensure the babies safety.
Tbh it seems like your moat reasonable option is to make your home the place for the family get togethers.

Nit sure if its helpful but these are things we do.
When DS first came home DDog was put on his lead if he was too excitable.
Dog isn't allowed too close to baby, certainly not up against him etc
If baby is crying dog is out of the room.
Dog is now trained to leave the room with me if I have to leave whilst baby is in his cot.
Baby is worn in a carrier a lot around the house.

6 weeks in, he's largely unbothered by my son, doesn't take an interest when he cries (when he first came home, Dog tried to barge me out of the way to get to the baby who was whimpering.

The dog has been telling you all for quite some time that they find small people stressful. Between you, nobody has picked up on those signs. Babies and children should not be crawling around near dogs no matter how well they have previously appeared to get along. Your DH needs to speak to PiL to work this out going forward. My suggestion would be that the dog is kept in a safe space where they feel comfortable, maybe a bedroom or conservatory - somewhere there doesn't have to be heavy traffic but where the dog can be checked regularly, let out to toilet etc... and you all take responsibility for ensuring there are no careless oops moments. I'm sorry if I seem harsh OP but I've spent the last twenty five years of my life rehabbing dogs who have a bad reputation as "aggressive" - I have yet to meet one that actually was. What I have met is scores of anxious, depressed, shut down dogs who have given up on life and have reacted badly in a moment of highest anxiety, now their world has been torn apart as have the lives of those who love them.

Okay thanks everyone. As I said I don't know much about dogs, never had one myself, my partners family always have had dogs, so I trusted their judgement.
I'd never seen problems with this dog previously with other family children so saw no issue with a baby crawling near it (much like their family didn't) I won't allow baby and dog to be together again and will make this clear to PIL and BIL

There’s a difference between a child “crawling near a dog” which my kids do all the time with my own dogs, and a child crawling all over a dog. Obviously the latter is an absolute no-no, and it’s up to the parent to prevent the child from doing this.

From the OP’s post, the dog hasn’t ever shown aggression - if it has in any circumstances, this changes things entirely! But I see absolutely no concern with allowing a child to crawl around “the same space” as a dog who previously has shown no behavioural concerns!

Yep - I've spent my whole life around dogs, as well as wild animals and livestock. I've seen enough beautiful, loving, docile dogs turn and snap because they're spooked, stressed, or scared to make me certain that I don't want dogs around my baby. And for various reasons, babies and small children can be a trigger for these things.

I'm really not trying to be all "well you shouldn't have done XYZ in the first place", OP, this is just a learning moment and I'm so happy your lovely dc was unharmed - obviously mostly for your DC's sake but also the dog's. It makes me very sad when dogs are put in situations that can lead to them being put down because they were stressed and reacted as their instincts tell them.

You are NOT overreacting, your mum-instinct to keep your baby away from this dog are totally valid and the right thing to do imo.

What did your PIL's do after the incident? How does your partner feel?

There is absolutely no way I would let my baby go to that house while the dog is there. If they are the default childcare, can't one of them come to your house to look after your child while you're in hospital?

I would be finding alternative childcare for when you go into hospital.

I think how you proceed depends on PIL response to the incident. Are they acknowledging the now apparent risk and making plans to keep dog and baby seperate? Or are they playing it down?

I think YABU to require the dog not be at the house (where would it go??)

As dog owners, they should know better.

I had the two most loving, docile, genital golden retrievers you would ever meet, but I never had them in the same room as someone else’s small
child and my own children were never left alone with them for a second and always closely supervised so they were acting appropriately around the dogs.

I wouldn’t leave my children with a dog owner who couldn’t keep both the child and the dog safe.

I agree with all of this.

I also hope in the future people won’t be able to have dogs unless they’ve been on specific courses that teach all of this basic stuff.

The anthropomorphisation of dogs that is rife these days, is so dangerous.

The dog wasn't being 'protective' when it got upset at the baby crying. It was anxious and stressed at the noise. And it was a clear sign that it was likely to react unpredictably to the child at some point.

People need to stop attributing positive human emotions to animals, and anyways err on the cautious side.

@livelyredjellybean you don't wait for that one incident though, to say that the dog can't be trusted. The incident that happened within my family - the dog had never shown aggression before. The child was not a baby. The child wasn't bothering the dog. Dog was sleeping. Child accidentally touched the dog with a toy. Dog startled. Reflex was to bite whatever had startled him awake. This dog has lived with children for years and was a very docile dog and a breed that is often said to be a wonderful choice to have around children.

Yanbu.

All it takes it 1 time or 1 accident. Isn't worth the risk.

@Staryflight445 I also hope in the future people won’t be able to have dogs unless they’ve been on specific courses that teach all of this basic stuff.

I completely agree! Yes OP didn't read the dog's behaviour but she doesn't bloomin have a dog so why would she?! Her PIL's should have known better as the owners of the dog.

And I also agree with everything @saraclara said. Animals are animals, let's respect them as such!

It’s not unfair at all the fact you think it is just shows you have very little understanding of dogs and is even more reason for you to keep you children separate from them.

I have a family and I have a dog. He’s never snapped at anyone but he does give very clear (to me) stress signals so I am hyper vigilant and never let him unsupervised around children. He knows and loves the neighbours children but I never let them pet him unsupervised. He’s a great dog but he has a slightly nervous nature so although he’s never bitten and only ever seems happy to see people I’m always cautious both for his benefit and other people’s.

You’re not wrong to be upset about the incident but you do need to take some responsibility for your own ignorance about keeping your child safe around dogs.

I suspect this dog has NOT actually been 'fine' and 'good' with previous babies, I suspect they've struggled and have no further tolerance.

I can pretty safely state however that the dog did not 'try to bite' - dogs move far faster than us, if the dog intended to land a bite, the dog would have landed a bite unless there is extra information such as the dog is blind - dogs don't miss.

The significance of that is.. this dog IS still communicating their discomfort without actually biting.

Likely an air snap (often interpreted as 'tried to bite but I pulled them away in time').

That means theres time to improve this!

Separate dog and baby - the dog is NOT comfortable with a crawling baby and tbh, very few dogs are - its scary, babies are unpredictable, grabby, smacky, wobbly, prone to strong smells and loud noises, and they DO NOT respond to the polite dog-language communications to back off, give the dog space, leave me alone (stare, freeze, lip curl, growl, air snap etc).. Instead.. they keep coming, which is rude and confrontational!

So the safest kindest thing you can do for both is - well ideally, don't go round there, but if you must - separate them.

If this were YOUR dog, id recommend you reward the heck out of the dog for moving away from the baby and ensure the baby can never approach the dog or trap them. Dogs often forget they can move away, another misunderstanding - people think 'well if he didn't like it... (being smacked, hit, grabbed, climbed on, approached)... he'd move away'.

It doesn't work like that - worried or anxious dogs (and people do this too!) often freeze and forget that moving away is an option.

If we can encourage moving away and reward it by chucking treats so the dog wants to follow them... away from the baby, great!

I suspect it isn't practical to do this with the dog being someone elses - do you know what they have done in the past, have they rewarded the dog for being gentle around babies/ignoring babies, or have they told the dog off for freezing/lip curling/growling (if they have this will make it worse and tbh that would mean I would NOT let my baby go near the dog again. Punishing communication like that is what results in dogs who 'bite without warning'.)

Whatever you decide to do re their dog, I would make a strong point of distracting your baby from any other dog and rewarding them for that - all too often people make a BIG deal about approaching doggies, touching doggies etc when actually what would be far safer is teaching children 'yes the doggy is nice we can look at him from HERE and NOT go and touch/hug/fuss' until they are old enough to understand how to touch nicely, that a growly face is NOT a smile etc etc.

*gentle.
Not genital 😳

It may not have been intended as an attack, but a correction. Adult dogs do the same with puppies.

However, while a puppy may be fine after being nipped, a baby might need stitches, so it's a good idea to keep the baby away from the dog as neither understand each other very well.

We’ll agree to disagree, I guess. I wouldn’t have any crawling baby in the same room as a dog, supervised or not, and regardless of how ‘good’ the dog is.

I say this as the owner of an extremely tolerant, docile dog, who children who are otherwise scared of dogs love - we’ve had a couple come to meet her specifically to help them. She’d be a brilliant PAT dog if I had the time. But I still wouldn’t have her near a crawling baby. Primarily because would be unfair to her. If I put her in that situation it wouldn’t be for her benefit or the baby’s benefit, and it could result in unwanted stress for everyone.

I’m much less hardline about older children with correct supervision but crawling babies - nope.

If you don't trust your ILs to keep the dogs & kids separate then you need to be looking for other childcare for if you need to go to hospital.

What's your husband's take on it all?

As others have pointed out, my thoughts would be that the previous "protective" behaviour was actually this dog trying very hard to communicate distress or anxiety around your baby and that your ILs have not been able to recognise this as such and take it as the warning it should be. With that in mind, it is possible that the dog gave similar warnings for all the previous children before but circumstances meant it was never pushed to go futher. Or the dog is losing patience with age which also happens.

FWIW dogs may use a forward snapping motion, as if to bite, but without the intention to follow through futher than skin contact without pressure - as a futher escalation of the warnings they have already been giving. I suspect this is what has happened, because a bite that is meant as a bite is very quick and it would be a super human who could get a baby out the way in time.

Of course, even the snapping warning is not something anyone wants to see or something that should be dismissed. This dog is unhappy around your baby and you are very sensible to take the warnings it has given seriously. However the dog has been in the past, the dog is now uncomfortable around your baby and should not be put in a situation where a bite is possible.

Worth noting that if this is truly a change in the dog's behaviour then a vet check is essential to rule out medical causes, which can play a factor here.