Who is being unreasonable?

[User2392]

I know you all hate these types of threads but I wanted to keep it as unbiased as I could so apologies!

Olivia has a child with Paul, they are not together and Paul has another younger child with his wife Lizzy.

Olivia and Lizzy have always gotten on well enough, not the best of friends but amicable and as the years have gone on, friendly.

Olivia's child has recently told her that he feels since his sister was born that Lizzy and her family don't care about him as much and are always doing things with his sister and not him. This upset Olivia.

Olivia and Paul don't really get on so she decided to send a message to Lizzy directly just asking if they could talk about it. The message was polite but to the point.

Lizzy replied saying that she is sorry he feels that way but her daughter will always be number one to both her and her family (her parents, grandparents, siblings etc..) and that if there are any issues with their child, Olivia should take it up with Paul. She also added that it was none of Olivia's business how much or what Lizzy does with her own daughter and she won't be made to feel like she has to justify it. The message was also polite but obviously Lizzy wasn't happy.

Who's unreasonable?

(Flipped a coin for the vote so don't read anything into that)

YABU - Olivia shouldn't have sent the message in the first place.

YANBU - Lizzy's reply was cruel.

As has been said, kids get upset about lots of things. They need to be taught whether it is worth being upset about or not.

What is your definition of family, then?

If Olivia feels Lizzy's parents are being unfair, I assume she is also asking her parents to take out Lizzy and Paul's daughter? And is making a big fuss for the daughter herself on her birthday

This would only be relevant if the daughter lived with OP part time.

Out of curiosity why is everyone saying the only solution is for the grandparents to never spend alone time with that DGD. One compromise would be that they simply take her out on one of the 50% of days where the SS is not around?

*lived with Olivia not OP!

Out of curiosity why is everyone saying the only solution is for the grandparents to never spend alone time with that DGD. One compromise would be that they simply take her out on one of the 50% of days where the SS is not around?

He's around 50/50, it's unrealistic to expect this.

No one is saying dismiss his emotions,. You can acknowledge his emotions and kindly explain why the situation is as it is. Not dismissing his emotions doesn’t mean pandering to them.

It’s irrelevant whether it’s your ideal definition of what family is. What OP has described is an incredibly common reality of blended families, if not the most usual one. It may not be your preferred reality, but that doesn’t mean it’s an abusive or unreasonable set up.

And you’ve liberally done exactly what I’ve ‘accused’ you of (observed you doing, actually) all over this thread.

because the child is the one who had the least choice about the situation, has the least agency/ power , is the most vulnerable (due to their relative emotional immaturity and dependency)

But this also applies to the 3yo DD who similarly has no choice about the situation. The 10yo DS has already had years of attention/days out with his own biological family without a sibling present (and if he hasn't that's entirely down to his parents and not for Lizzie to right those wrongs at the expense of her own daughter). His sister should also have the opportunity to enjoy some time alone with her own biological family - it's not like Lizzy's parents exclude DS each time, just that DD gets more time and attention off them than he does.

I know someone's going to say DD has the benefit of both parents living together, but again that is not DD's choice and has no bearing on whether she should lose out on time with her maternal family in some misguided attempt at equity with her brother. Especially considering the higher % of second marriages that end in separation vs first marriages - who knows how long she'll get to enjoy that "privilege" anyway? (I put privilege in inverted commas because growing up in a household with parents who don't get on is horrendous).

They need to be taught whether it is worth being upset about or not

”Belittling or criticizing a child’s emotions is telling them that they are not allowed to feel “incorrectly”…Children of dismissive parents are at a higher risk of developing mental disorders such as depression”
www.parentingforbrain.com/emotion-dismissing-parent/

what is your definition of family

I think family is more defined by social, legal, caregiving ties , rather than by DNA.

And you’ve liberally done exactly what I’ve ‘accused’ you of (observed you doing, actually) all over this thread

Nope.

what a strange argument. My DD1 had 2.5 years alone time with family before DD2 arrived, doesn’t mean I leave DD1 out of fun activities , make more of a fuss of DD2 on her birthday to make things more “fair”/ compensate for that.

in any case the daughter in this scenario has ample time to have her family alone (much more than my DD2) as DSS is only there 50%!

On paper I think Olivia is wrong, but I've seen this dynamic in action and reality can be very different. I've seen 'Lizzy' totally embrace being a stepmum. Full on, 100%, the world revolves around my stepkids mode. But once the baby arrived it all changed. The stepkids were relegated to temporary, somewhat irritating, houseguests. Of course they felt it, and their mum wasn't happy. It wasn't that the baby was treated differently, it was that they were being treated differently to what they were used to.

@Tandora it would be a strange argument if the DD and DS were full siblings as in your example, but that's the point, they're not. I doubt you'd send one of your children to live in another house 50% of the time either, doesn't make it the wrong thing for the DS in this scenario.

I don’t think half siblings who are living in the same house should be treated differently to full siblings.

You can keep quoting serious abuse jargon but that doesn't retract from the reality that at the same time, parents DO gently teach their children what is/isn't worth being upset about on a daily basis. So no, you don't need to run away because I wouldn't get you a pony like your friend's parents and I don't hate you because I'm making you do homework. Etc. It doesn't mean they are being belittled. They are being taught.

The difference here is that you just think he's right to be upset. Your definition of family is just a thinly veiled way of saying Lizzie and her parents should view him exactly like their grand/child and therefore are inherently being unreasonable. But the reality is that isn't something parents can expect from others towards their children and it's their choice whether they want to get into new relationships or not, knowing that.

I think it sounds like the ds has been dropped somewhat.

I feel that when the children are there together they should have the same opportunities, could the grandparents do these things when the ds isn't around?

It's hard to tell, but it feels like it's constant trips out and spoiling the dd while the ds just sits around with his dad not bothering to do anything at all.

Children of dismissive parents are at a higher risk of developing mental disorders such as depression

But Lizzie isn't the child's parent, @Tandora, that would be Paul.

Lizzie (and more particularly, Lizzie's parents) bear no responsibility towards the child in question beyond that of being kind and having some empathy towards his situation, like you would expect of any decent adult.

It's on his actual parents to, you know, parent him.

They live in the same house 50% of the time, have a completely different parent, and different extended families.

They’re going to be treated differently (which isn’t to say, badly), on account of the different relationships they will have with their respective relatives. He is also going to treat them differently for the same reason. I doubt he thinks his stepmother is equal to his actual mother for a start.

Out of curiosity why is everyone saying the only solution is for the grandparents to never spend alone time with that DGD. One compromise would be that they simply take her out on one of the 50% of days where the SS is not around?

That then still means her relationship with her GPs is dictated by her DBs needs/wants?

The difference here is that you just think he's right to be upset

No- its not a question of whether he is right to be upset or not. He is upset, and I don’t think that “teaching him not to be” will help. I think being upset that your parents won’t get you a pony and being upset that your step parent who you live with 50% no longer cares about you, and your sibling is getting preferential treatment, are two very different types of upset. The former has not been know you cause long term damage to a child’s sense of self worth/ esteem.

She’s an adult with a caregiving role who he lives with for 50% of the time, so the principles of harmful caregiving are the same regardless of DNA.

…and he gets ‘preferential’ treatment from his own grandparents! He’s not their grandchild, his sister is. They’re treat him kindly, and that’s all that can be expected of them. He’s the son of a man their daughter married, they’re not obliged to consider him their flesh and blood grandchild.

Acknowledging his upset and kindly explaining why the reality is as it is, is not ignoring or dismissing it. You seem to think though that anything other than explicitly pandering to it is abusive though. It isn’t.

In any case i posted this more info response to posters saying it was Paul and Olivia’s job to teach their son to feel differently / that he doesn’t have a “right” to be upset , rather than to take his feelings seriously and negotiate a compromise with Lizzie.

I’m assuming you’re just being deliberately obtuse at this point, because these are not difficult concepts to grasp.

I do think the GP are a different question , although I also think they could be kinder, I agree they have less obligation. But Lizzie is also apparently giving her DD preferential treatment according to the scenario OP has shared.

Ha.