Who is being unreasonable?

[User2392]

I know you all hate these types of threads but I wanted to keep it as unbiased as I could so apologies!

Olivia has a child with Paul, they are not together and Paul has another younger child with his wife Lizzy.

Olivia and Lizzy have always gotten on well enough, not the best of friends but amicable and as the years have gone on, friendly.

Olivia's child has recently told her that he feels since his sister was born that Lizzy and her family don't care about him as much and are always doing things with his sister and not him. This upset Olivia.

Olivia and Paul don't really get on so she decided to send a message to Lizzy directly just asking if they could talk about it. The message was polite but to the point.

Lizzy replied saying that she is sorry he feels that way but her daughter will always be number one to both her and her family (her parents, grandparents, siblings etc..) and that if there are any issues with their child, Olivia should take it up with Paul. She also added that it was none of Olivia's business how much or what Lizzy does with her own daughter and she won't be made to feel like she has to justify it. The message was also polite but obviously Lizzy wasn't happy.

Who's unreasonable?

(Flipped a coin for the vote so don't read anything into that)

YABU - Olivia shouldn't have sent the message in the first place.

YANBU - Lizzy's reply was cruel.

Really ? I read it differently .
OP’s list says:

he feels since his sister was born that Lizzy and her family don't care about him as much and are always doing things with his sister and not him

Lizzie’s reply was that her child will always be number 1 and refused to even have a conversation with Olivia about it?

To me that says it’s about much more than one day at grandparents, and Lizzie’s response would be a serious issue for me in itself.

The OP explicitly mentioned two examples that concerned the stepmother’s parents. Yes, her parents will naturally do more with their granddaughter. The stepmother will naturally do more with her daughter who she has full time and is responsible for. The son’s father is the one responsible for him, and he is after all there to be with his father, not have the stepmother pretend to be his actual mother. Again, ‘treated differently’ is not synonymous with ‘treated badly’.

No shit captain obvious, to all of those points.

I hope you don’t seriously work with vulnerable children, or indeed the vulnerable at all. The last thing people requiring help need is to have words put into their mouth by someone who thinks they have special insight based on information they’ve dreamed up.

@Tandora Yes, he feels that way, and there's no evidence that there's actually anything behind that besides him missing out on some days out. Kids very frequently say they feel unloved for materialistic reasons.

You have no idea what Olivia actually said to Lizzie, you're predisposed to say that Lizzie's response is "a problem" to you. Olivia's message could be "a problem" to others.

Totally agree

I mean of course I have no idea what is going on i this situation at all - other than what we have from the OPs posts.
But on the basis of the OPs posts the situation does not sound like a healthy environment for Olivia’s son.

I am shocked at the number of people saying it’s ok to just disregard that a child feels unloved / not cared for/ not made a priority , that’s a serious issue in any family. Children don’t just feel like that for no reason- it’s not trivial. A child should not feel “left out” at home.

’Olivia’ needs to grow up and speak to her childs dad.

You admit you have no idea what’s going on, but it ‘doesn’t sound like a healthy environment for Olivia’s son’. Right.

You’re still trying to push your own narrative.

and yes, kids absolutely can and do feel many things for no rational reason. Furthermore, not every whim, complaint or demand of a child needs to be a ‘priority’.

Both probably! It does depend somewhat on how much time the child is expected to spend with Paul and Lizzy.

I agree with this. Also if he is 10 I am assuming there is a big age difference. The grandparents may be taking the DGD to something that is way tok babyish for him. I think they are entitled to enjoy their grandchild at whatever age she is and not have to alter this.

It does sound quite like jealousy of missed days out.

What do his own maternal Gps do with him for example?

I mean this is a mad response to my comments? I haven’t put any words in anyones mouth only quoted from the original post.
Only two examples were given- gp and birthday- but these were examples of things that (in the OPs words) are “always” happening according to son, and thus he feels like they don’t care about him any more.
Meanwhole Lizzie confirms her DD is number 1 and refuses to even entertain a conversation about DSS feelings, to seek to understand them better or to try to resolve. For me, The latter is enough alone to say there is a serious problem/ potential emotional neglect.

Anyways, we clearly are not going to agree x

I’m not pushing a narrative. We have both been invited to share our opinions on a situation we know nothing about beyond the details in OPs post. I have based my conclusions on those details.

Furthermore, not every whim, complaint or demand of a child needs to be a ‘priority’.

Ha! I currently live with a threenager, if I thought I needed to cater to her every complaint/ demand/ whim, I certainly wouldn’t survive.

If my three year old tells me she wants to watch peppa pig at 3am in the morning, or put her shoes on backwards , I roll my eyes at her irrationality and get on with things.

If my 10 year old told me he felt like Daddy didn’t care about him anymore since he got a new job, I’d 100% take that seriously and want to get to the bottom of it, before dismissing it out of hand as something that was not to be “pandered to”.

If my 10 year old told me he felt like Daddy didn’t care about him anymore since he got a new job, I’d 100% take that seriously and want to get to the bottom of it, before dismissing it out of hand as something that was not to be “pandered to”.

And Paul, PAUL, should be doing more to help his son. At the moment he seems to be doing fuck all, and people like you are focusing on Lizzy. The onus is not on Lizzy and her family to stop what they’re doing, because everything they’re doing is both logical and fair.
Paul could be making plans for him and his son while Lizzy is out with DD. He could be having age appropriate conversations with him about it Lizzy going out with DD. Paul needs to be doing more here. But what shouldn’t have to change, is DD getting time with her mum and grandparents alone.

Of course you’re pushing a narrative. You’re making shit up about people, and a situation, you truthfully know nothing about, based on just two examples of Lizzie’s parents, who treat the child kindly, having more interactions with their actual grandchild.

You’ve taken the scant information that’s been given and extrapolated it into the boy being abused and neglected. If you do that in real life, then it absolutely is a fucking problem for anyone you deal with.

Your comment is bizarre. We have been invited to comment on a situation based on a certain set of facts. I have done exactly that. As have you.
Of course, if I were dealing with this situation in real life , the first thing I would want to do is gather a lot more information / context before coming to a judgement about who is being unreasonable.
For the purposes of AIBU, based on the facts before me, I think it is Lizzie not Olivia is BU. and certainly also Paul is likely BU, although he is barely mentioned in the OP.

I wonder if OP will clarify if she is Lizzie or Olivia?

Yes Paul should no doubt be doing more . he is barely mentioned in the OP, so it’s difficult to comment because there’s nothing to go on. I agree that in practice , however, he is likely the one mostly at fault here.
But I don’t think that gets Lizzie off the hook. I still think her attitude (as expressed in her text to Olivia) is unacceptable.

@Tandora You see Lizzie's response as inherently a problem, but it really isn't. All she essentially said is that she is sorry he is upset but she isn't going to stop her parents doing things with her DD and she isn't going to stop doing them herself. This is totally fair enough, the alternative would have been agreeing to not do these things.

Like it or not his parents have chosen a reality for him where any partners they get or half siblings they have will only have one family in common with him, not two. Now his parents need to lay the groundwork in teaching him about this reality. Especially when the SC has both sets of grandparents as well, this is not a particularly hard thing to teach, but it needs to be done or they are setting their child up for confusion and disappointment.

I think where I disagree is the idea that the child is the one who needs to change his attitude/ be “taught” to manage his expectations/ to accept this reality etc. Quite Aside from the fact that it is impossible to “teach” a child how to feel about a situation , and potentially very harmful to try to do so, why is it only the child who should change his ideas/ attitude/ expectation/ desires? I think there needs to be compromise on all sides, but imo by far the greatest onus is on the adults to compromise, because the child is the one who had the least choice about the situation, has the least agency/ power , is the most vulnerable (due to their relative emotional immaturity and dependency) etc. etc.
Yes Paul needs to step up, but Lizzie needs to take responsibility too.

Because children need learn the world around them, and relationships, in order to emerge as functioning and independent adults. Some adults also need to learn this, but that’s by the by.

His expectations should absolutely be managed. He can understand that Lizzie isn’t his mother, and Lizzie’s parents aren’t his grandparents, and their relationship to him will be different to the one they have with his half sister. He has his own mother and grandparents, who won’t have the same relationship with his sister. For whatever reason you think this is inherently harmful and that ‘treated differently’ can only mean ‘treated horribly’, but that’s not the case at all.

It can also be explained kindly to him. You also seem to think that he’s the only one that’s needed to adapt or compromise, but I highly doubt that’s the case.

My Stepmother's parents treated me exactly the same as they treated their biological grandchildren. But the difference is that my mother had died and we had no contact with her family. I lived with my Dad and Stepmother full time, and was officially adopted by my Stepmother.

If Olivia feels Lizzy's parents are being unfair, I assume she is also asking her parents to take out Lizzy and Paul's daughter? And is making a big fuss for the daughter herself on her birthday?

Lizzy and her family do not have shared custody of the son. Olivia and Paul have shared custody of the son and Olivia should stop assuming that her ex has delegated his responsibilities to his new partner. In fact Lizzy's daughter going out with Lizzy and her parents is an excellent opportunity for some one on one father son time

You’re welcome to think it’s bizarre as much as you like. I think it is concerning, considering you claim to work with vulnerable children, that you’ve projected an entire reality onto the scant information provided, and presented it as fact. You didn’t hesitate to do so either, even though you should be quite aware not to do that given how harmful the consequences can be.

You haven’t commented on the situation at all, you’ve commented on the situation you imagine it to be.

I think where I disagree is the idea that the child is the one who needs to change his attitude/ be “taught” to manage his expectations/ to accept this reality etc. Quite Aside from the fact that it is impossible to “teach” a child how to feel about a situation , and potentially very harmful to try to do so, why is it only the child who should change his ideas/ attitude/ expectation/ desires? I think there needs to be compromise on all sides, but imo by far the greatest onus is on the adults to compromise, because the child is the one who had the least choice about the situation, has the least agency/ power , is the most vulnerable (due to their relative emotional immaturity and dependency) etc. etc.
Yes Paul needs to step up, but Lizzie needs to take responsibility too.

Because this is his reality, and it's not actually a problem. He has two parents and (presumably) two sets of grandparents. So does his half sister. They will both have closer relationships with their own relatives, which is again perfectly normal. The position he is in is a common one.

The onus is on his parents to raise him to understand the roles of the people in his life, not to expect others to curb their relationship with their grand/child so he never has to.

To be clear I’ve done nothing you’ve accused me of and stop making this personal please.

and it's not actually a problem

Ahh again the crux. It is apparently upsetting the child- therefore it is a problem.

www.parentingforbrain.com/emotion-dismissing-parent/

I also disagree with your characterisation of “reality” and definition of “family”.