Live-in nanny hints

[AdifferentGoat]

Wasn't sure how to title this. I have a good nanny and currently she takes care of my toddler DD when I'm working (father isn't around much and we are currently going through a contentious divorce). So, as far as wages go, she's paid a decent amount and she had her own room/bathroom(given) and I pay for her food (she is welcome to eat anything in the fridge & pantry plus I buy her items she needs) alongside basic toiletries and of course health insurance. I mention the above not to reiterate some kind of 'generosity' on my part but more-so, to give context as to my dilemma.

Recently, she's been dropping hints as to things she needs but can't afford. She doesn't explicitly say she cannot afford them but more-so will say something like: I'd love to replace my contact lens but it's XXX amount of dollars. This will be followed by a sigh and she'll resume whatever she was doing. To be fair, she hasn't done this too often but it's made me uncomfortable. Naturally, I don't want her walking around half-blind but having had experience with a previous nanny who kept asking for more and more, I'm a bit cagey about a slippery slope. Now, I wouldn't have minded if she'd asked me directly and while I could afford it, I'm somewhat hesitant. Am I being unreasonable here? A part of me feels bad like she was waiting for me to offer up paying for her contact lens but another part is wondering why she's asking me? Has anyone faced this and how do you deal with it? Is this the nature of having a nanny? Is there hope out there that I can find a nanny that won't inevitably ask for loans and my buying her things. At risk of sounding redundant, yes I could afford it but there is a part of me that just feels I keep being asked for things or maybe I'm misreading the situation and she was just informing me that the cost was too high.

I know I'm also a bit high-strung these days with my ongoing divorce proceedings.

I know it's a pretty silly problem.

Gosh usually on mn I’m the first one to wade in and criticise someone for hiring an aupair and expecting a nanny, taking advantage of childcare staff etc. But this is a well paid professional nanny, not your niece who is helping you out for a few weeks! You don’t need to buy your nanny’s toiletries and you certainly shouldn’t be buying her sports shoes and contact lenses. It’s really inappropriate. Does she seem appropriate and professional otherwise? I’d have thought it was pretty inappropriate to accept/ask for gifts from your employer.

She is a nanny.
She should be bathing, feeding, playing with and nurturing your child as well as doing laundry and tidying up without being asked to. It's her job.

You are not required to cook her dinner or clean up after her.

She has got a nice job with a decent mum and she's a CF as she knows it's coming to an end.

She is not a poorly paid au pair who should be bought extras.

Personally, I'd sit her down and explain that she earns more than you from a take home perspective and she needs to manage her personal expenditure. You are not obliged to pay for sports shoes for the park and you expect her not to be asked to do her job - no other employer would allow an employee to not do what is expected.

To be honest I’d get her to be a live out nanny if she won’t even help out of hours , what benefit to you is there having her live in ?

Hello lovely lady @AdifferentGoat I’m so happy to hear you are escaping your awful marriage and getting the life you deserve. Yes your nanny is taking the piss. If she keeps asking for things I would sit her down and have a frank conversation about it - ask her whether she thinks she isn’t paid enough when it’s over the market rate as you said, and if you don’t want to do that, just stop responding to the hints. She keeps doing it because she knows it works. So stop. Start dropping your own hints about how expensive things are these days and start making enquiries about getting a new nanny. She sounds like she’ll just get increasingly grabby and will never have enough from you. Good luck xx

Apple I’ve reported this for removal

Jeez. £46k and she can't afford trainers or contact lenses? She's taking you for a mug.
You give her room and board and a great wage. I don't even see why you are providing basic health stuff - she should pay for anything personal, be that shampoo or trainers or whatever.
My sister has a nanny and pays her nothing like that but does provide her with a runaround car and probably her phone. Anything else is her responsibility.

Just for clarity - please tell me you did speak to her previous employers? Rather than just accepting written references she had?

An experienced nanny shouldn’t need asked or prompted to do, well, nannying tasks.

But she doesn't really take initiative to make lunch for her (sometimes but these days it's very hohum). I end up standing awkwardly around and end up usually doing it myself (which I am happy to) but it's hard as sometimes I'll have calls or just need even 30 minutes to myself.

But this is during the day, surely it's her job to make dd's lunch?!

OP, she is seriously taking advantage of you.

So you're paying her £46k, plus healthcare, plus she lives in, for the odd bit of childcare?

I read the OP genuinely thinking it was going to turn out to be one of those posts where references to 'nanny' actually mean au pair on £70 a week. That wage is amazing with no real living costs! And you sound like a lovely employer.

It's a different situation, but when I had a lodger I would occasionally buy us both wine or lunch out whatever as she was on benefits and I was earning well. Over time it became completely expected (with obvious resentment when requests were refused) to the point what was once a good friendship broke down completely. Nip the precedent you've set in the bud.

On a practical level, it seems like an au pair would better suit your requirements once DD is in nursery. It sounds like you'd also make a lovely au pair employer.

It's not the same experience but I've been with a cleaner for 3 years when we weren't earning much and I always paid her above market rate. When we opened a new business, the business did well and we moved to a much more nicer flat in a much more nicer location but still same size as our previous flat. She started asking for more money which we did give her as we trusted her and increased her pay 3 times within the last 3 years. This year, DH upgraded his car and then she said "oh you're doing so well now, maybe we can increase my rate to £25 ph". I then gave her notice. Just because my business is doing well, I don't pay extra at Tescos for the same services or products. I've hired a new cleaner now at the same market rate where she does a better job as well and doesn't moan or complain about her personal life constantly how her cocklodging partner scrounges off her or the fact that she has to feed and look after her dd's boyfriend as well. Some people are cf's, you give an inch and they will try it. Just ignore her comments. I know nanny's are different as you trust your child with them and you say you pay her above market rate, so her job is to do her job and if there's any extras that involves your daughter, then you'd pay that such as extra snacks or days out where she wanted ice cream but you don't need to provide her trainers or contact lenses just how your employers don't pay your trainers. They pay you your salary and you buy yourself new trainers if you want.

Thanks everyone. I'll be responding to the specific questions shortly but I wondered if I could ask for a little help. What are the usual duties of a live-in professional nanny? As mentioned, I only have one toddler DD and a low maintenance cat that has adopted us (ex is not going to any real length to win custody of him in the divorce!)

I'd really appreciate insight from any nannies on the thread as well. I suppose sometimes I felt like I'm asking too much for example if I ask her to do an overnight (it has never happened for context). She will put DD to bed but then as soon as I am home, she retires. However she has let me know on nights DD was ill/teething, I can "knock" on her door even if it's 3 am. That just seems rather bizarre to me as I would feel uncomfortable going to my child and then traipsing down the hallway to go "knock" on her door for help?? I had imagined on overnights, she takes the baby monitor? Again bear in mind, I have never asked for overnight. The latest I have ever gotten home is 3 am (unrelated to work but a fun night out that stretched out!) but this happened ONLY once! She was asleep by then (fell asleep on the sofa bed in DD's room) so let her be. The other occasion was midnight or eleven (but each time related to work) and the second I was home, she'd retire.

I was hoping for some help organizing the kitchen etc. I had it organized perfectly prior to her joining as didn't want to just toss her into a mess but since then, everything is topsy turvy. She has quite a bit of time to herself so it can't be that she is overworked?

I know nanny jobs are usually exclusive to DCs and their wellbeing but prior to hiring her, I let her know the role would entail light housekeeping/organization and some cooking (outside of DD). Cooking is basically simple dishes like salads/friends eggs & roast and/or rice variety dishes and even so, on average she makes me eggs once a week for breakfast as I take care of myself. I'd say cooking wise, I do 60% of it, we order in some and she cooks simple meals. See, the problem isn't that I need a cook on hand but rather, with all this "experience" why can't she show initiative when it comes to DD's food? I eat everything toddler so not like she has to make an extra effort for me haha. Am I asking too much here?

When I am home, I do all the cooking and she'll often help with preparation but I do everything else. I also bake for DD and make her healthy snacks as I got tired of her feeding DD the same things (I also like to bake which is a plus) but...isn't part of being a nanny taking charge of this?

Re the cat, she changes the litter and tops up his food. I don't expect her to be running around with him but this can't take several hours to do(??)

So, before I digress any further, if it's possible I'd love just a little insight as to what such a role entails(professional nanny/good salary & benefits/ one toddler that is relatively easy going and an overweight cat).

I have no idea with friends eggs & roast is! What I meant to say is *fried eggs & toast.

I spoke to two of her ex employers. They had nothing but good to say about her. One mentioned she's quite heavy footed (!!) but that she was excellent with their DS who was a newborn at the time. The other employer was a long term one and they'd long since moved from the US. Even so, they had nothing but good to say. I didn't bother speaking to the third employer as she had a reference from them too so assumed it'd be the same as others.

The thing is she is just so nice and has the nurturing "grannie" quality to her. She's easy to talk to and there is no awkwardness in the home at all. As far as personalities go, I think she has a great one but...I wonder if that's how she managed to get such glowing references? I have no idea. I have been so busy with work and a useless ex to be that I hadn't given it much thought. But for eg yesterday, I come home from work and DD wakes. She then saunters in and asks what she should make for DD's lunch?? Surely she could have done this before?? And once dinner hit, "what are we making for dinner?"....I mean it that hard????

Our nanny is paid jointly between two families (one toddler each) £55k, live out (where we live, live in is more expensive because Nannie’s don’t want to be at beck and call of families). She is great & tidies after kids & cooks simple meals. She used to do DC laundry when she had her solo one day a week. If nanny sighed and said it would be hard to walk outside without sport shoes I think I would say…. Hmm maybe you’d better get some then? Part of the job description to take DC out and not my job to fund it!! Needs new contact lens? Not my problem! My employer does not pay for mine because I need to see at work! If you’re required to wear say, a suit, to work, would you expect your employer to pay for it?

Did you get her from an agency? If so, could you ask their advice?

Sad to hear about the lodger situation but I agree with you. It's one thing to do something as a niceity but when it's expected, it does breed resentment. I am certainly going to nip this in the bud and it's good to hear that I'm not being insanely unreasonable.

Once DD goes to nursery, I think I will look into getting a trusted au pair. The job doesn't require hours upon hours more so, just a steady pair of hands and we all contribute & I have someone I can rely on when I need to go out/travel here and there or even a little time to myself. A lot of the time, it's just her and DD sitting around or walking about parks. I give her cash for play areas if needed and extra for snacks so not like I'm expecting her to fund my child and so forth. An au pair might be more suitable for my child as well as DD loves playing and being outdoors. I certainly cannot be so lucky as to have another hire ask for sport shoes!

This thread has given me a lot to think about. For now, I'm keeping her as there is just too much going on but once DD starts nursery....well, what exactly will she be doing in those hours? Tidying up and so forth cannot take more than 2 hours (and this is worse case scenario as I keep a very tidy home) and even so, it's not like I expect cleaning around the clock....just maintenance! DD's toys are flung everywhere. She will put them "into boxes" but beyond that, where they are and what is attached to what is anyone's guess! On my way to the bath, I stepped on a mini lion! What she excels in is folding laundry and keeping DD safe...and....walking to the park? The more I write the more I shake my head.

I wonder if that's how she managed to get such glowing references? I have no idea.

People change their behaviour depending on what they can get away with. She thinks she can get away with this behaviour with you.

wtf is she spending her money on if she has no big bills... who cant afford contact lenses on that wage!!!

She is massively taking advantage of you. I have a friend (US) who was a nanny and the deal was that she handled everything with the kids: food, the children's laundry, all the children's meals from breakfast to dinner, and, depending on the contract, putting the children to bed.

I have another friend who is a doctor and has a fulltime nanny for her 4 kids. She pays her nanny very well (not live-in). But the reason for doing that is so my friend can focus totally on her career and enjoying her time with her kids. If she wants to work late, she just works late. When she comes home from work, the kids have eaten dinner, homework is done, all she has to do is spend time enjoying the company of her children. etcetera.

Your nanny is earning well, is having her room and board supplied by you, and is hinting for money for things that are rightfully her own responsibility. Where is the money going? It's going into her bank account. And, that's where it should go, except most of us then have to take the money back OUT of the bank account to pay for rent and food and our own contact lenses. And sports shoes.

And in addition to this, if you are home during lunch you have to make and serve lunch for your child instead of being able to take a little break during the time you are paying the nanny to care for your child? Uh, ok.

In unrelated news, I now want to be a nanny. 😀

I have excellent eye sight and running shoes coming out of my ears so no worries on that front.

Do remember to come straight back here and advertise if the current nanny doesn't work out, OP.

I think one of the problems is that you are her manager and you are not managing her.
First you need to decide exactly what your priorities are. Do you want a nanny or a nanny housekeeper? The two roles are very different.
A nanny or n a professional wage should expect a lot of sole charge time with the child. All practical aspects regarding the toddler should be taken care of including 3 meals a day, stimulation/educational activities/ bathed and ready for bed if you come home in the early evening so you can play, do storytime and settle child. You should agree a timetable with the nanny with maybe two evenings babysitting and one overnight care by nanny if that is your wish. Of course nanny can't be on duty night and day. She should have some proper down time and free t of me to go out factored in. So, for instance, if you want her to be on duty one evening she maybe shouldn't start work until lunch time. You should give her a schedule a week ahead so you and she knows where she is. If she is a full time nanny draw up a timetable for the week with meal times factored in. When she should go out to the park ext, organise some toddler groups like music and dance maybe two afternoons a week. Bear in mind when factoring times helping a toddler eat takes longer than you or I having a sandwich. Include adequate preparation time. On afternoons when toddler not going out put in clear related jobs. Child's laundry one afternoon. Total tidy of child's bedroom another. If toddler is napping is that nanny's rest period or is that work time? If work time you can expect her to leave earlier in evening. Discuss with nanny meals you would like your child to eat. Explain you want toddler to have a varied diet. Ask for suguestions to if none forthcoming draw up a basic plan yourself and ask nanny to stick to it.
The two qualified nannies I know have a plan on the kitchen wall which has been agreed and is more or less stuck to. Of course there is flexibility. If baby won't go down for his nap then ironing doesn't get done ext but in general mum and nanny know where they are.

If you want a nanny housekeeper then you still need a schedule but it will be different. If mornings are playtime or baby class then maybe afternoons are housekeeping. One afternoon food ordering, another general hoover and dust. Third do bathrooms. Remainder household laundry. If you want meals made beyond breakfast and lunch then nder this schedule then on those days the other afternoon job, maybe ironing has to go. Can be mutually agreed. Again agree which nights are babysitting, for the week with layer start factored in. Nanny should have at least one agreed full day and night as an "always' in her schedule (except for emergencies) so she knows when she can go the cinema, eat out with a friend ext. Doesn't matter if she doesn't use this it should still be in the contract.
I think you have given her too much flexibility op and that doesn't work for you or her 💐

Thank you so much. I really appreciate this very well thought-out response. I took some time to reflect on a response. So, initially when she joined, I had a schedule/routine of sorts but over time, I left her to her own devices as I didn't want her to feel micromanaged but beyond that, I was so sold by her experience level/expertise and her intrinsic kind nature, that I felt she certainly must know what she's doing. Regarding the role, it is mainly nanny with some light housekeeping. The main reason for this is I'm a very hands-on mum and working late is a rarity(but it does happen of course). Usually I'm back late afternoon and by that time, I take over care of my DD unless I have to run an errand/have a call/ a break for max one hour.

So, all this brings to the situation, roughly she follows the routine: Breakfast, go to park, nap time, lunch and dinner (I usually make dinner. When she makes it, she has a tendency to go towards chicken nuggets which is fine on occasion but I'd have liked her to show some imagination!). All this sounds great but if I put context into it, this is how it generally works out:

Baby up at 6 am/630 am or so, I go to her room, usually change diaper, brush teeth etc and go to the kitchen. When nanny hears us, she'll come out of her room and then ask what to make for breakfast/she'll start making eggs. At this point, I usually go for a quick run (30 mins 4x a week) and ready myself for work and leave. They go to the park/walk around for two hours. She puts DD down for nap and at this point she does some dishes, tidies up. I'm usually home when DD wakes and at this time am responding to work emails. As soon as DD is up, I'm with her and then nanny emerges and asks what's for lunch or fiddles around the fridge etc. Once some lunch comes together, she exits and takes her lunch and at min at 1 hour break if not 2 hours or more on occasion.

I don't want to bore you to death with this but I suppose what annoys me is she just doesn't take initiative unless it is something basic. Even bath time is rushed. DD was ill the other day so I asked if she would bathe her as I had a call with my divorce lawyer(fun!). I didn't tell her it was the divorce lawyer. She nodded and said she'd give her a shower instead as DD sick. I said, umm, no, I think a nice warm bath will relax her (DD loves baths). I wasn't even five minutes into the call when I heard DD being rinsed off! An express bath if there ever was one. That's just a weak example. When we hired her, I let her know I need overnight once a week on Friday (Friday is part-time for her as I come home at two pm guaranteed).What my ideal situation would have been would be that she put DD to bed on Friday and has the baby monitor so I could have some time to myself/catch up on sleep. What happens instead is she puts her to bed and waits for me to come home and then retires. I'd never expect her to start early if she had overnight. But she just doesn't seem to want to partake in any of the nitty gritty parts of the role.

I have tried the menu/recipes( outlining for her) but she requires so much help and will ask me to taste things and explain things. It became more stress than it was worth. If she had been a youngish woman with some experience, I would have take a ton of time to explain and lead her through it but this lady has 30 YEARS or so experience and a salary comparable to my own so I assumed she knows her sh*t but I don't think she does. Laundry wise, it's minimal but she stretches it out. I had to remind her to change the baby sheets and she sent it off to the dry cleaners.

Anyway, I know this is possibly the most convoluted response to your eloquently written post (I'm on minimal sleep and with only decaf coffee in the home!!) but I hope it answers a few of the questions. For now, I'm staying put and giving her benefit of doubt. Once DD starts nursery (so soon!), I'll have more time to sit down with her and re-do a routine and put more effort into guiding her with recipes and what not. One last thing though, re nanny roles, she doesn't really read to DD or play with her (outside of conversation and 'sounds') or do fun things like messy play etc. I'm a huge believer in independent play but how much of it?? I thought a nanny would do this esp a professional one. So if she's not doing the fun things, or even taking initiative with recipes and rushing through things, what am I paying for? Someone to ensure my kid doesn't run onto the road? If she was a nanny nanny, I wouldn't give a toss about the housekeeping stuff but the way it stands now, not sure...That and light housekeeping was always part of equation and in the contract. I hired someone with this level of 'expertise' as dictated by my ex-to-be so I could focus on my career with the knowledge that DD was in safe hands that would nurture her in my absence and I'd have a extra pair of hands to 'muck in' as they say.

Thank you again so very much<3

One thing I should mention is that in the interview process, I admitted I was struggling balancing childcare and work and I needed someone who could take ownership once a routine was settled. She said she was that person. I had a routine and everything set up but at the same time, I was relying on that expertise of her and the one day a week overnight in which I could relax. None have made an appearance thus far. I am sure part of that is me but surely a nanny of her caliber doesn't need me to explain what overnight means. I had already stated it and now it feels awkward as I don't want to 'force' someone. She keeps echoing that I can 'knock' on her door at 3 am if I need help but that just is odd. I just feel I am not getting the 'professional' I asked for. I would NOT expect this from a not so experienced nanny or au pair. Not at all. But at her level and her salary and with her experience, how is it that I have to continuously lay things out? I am not a confrontational person and I do like her but we invested this much so she could take ownership but now I'm half in work and half at home. I'm frustrated. Looking very forward to nursery.