To want to move back to the UK from the US?

[Star555]

For background, I am a 30-something year old British expat who has been in the US for a long time. My parents also live in the US, though on the other side of the country. I am currently doing a postgraduate STEM degree (at a very liberal east coast university) that I expect to finish in 3-4 years.

I don't think I've ever felt such a strong longing to return to the UK as I have been feeling over the last year or so, and especially now after the horrific Texas school shooting. Despite the pandemic, Brexit, the war in Ukraine, the cost of living crisis, Partygate, etc. I just feel like moving back home to the UK would be better and safer than staying in the US where mass shootings have become the norm, and the sex-based rights of women are being systematically erased in the name of "trans rights". (At least there is more pushback in the UK from JKR and other feminists and politicians!) I cannot imagine raising kids in the future in such an environment as the US.

I'm stuck finishing my degree for the next few years so it wouldn't be an immediate move, but I've started thinking about it seriously. My parents are permanently settled in the US and don't want to return to the UK, so it would be just me who moves. As an only child, I would feel guilty being so far from my parents as they get older, and any UK salary I earn would be significantly lower than the corresponding US salary, so I wouldn't have any financial cushion, especially if I move to London.

Has anyone been in a similar position? Honestly both the US and UK are a big mess right now, but would you move back to the UK from the US if you were in my shoes? Thanks!

I made a similar decision and moved to the UK. At the time, there was no imminent fear of Roe being overturned and Trump was just a slimy real-estate mogul.

I moved back to the UK with dh, mainly due to holiday allowance. It had such a huge effect on my life over the years, having 5 or 6 weeks of travel and leisure time.

What wound up being important to my quality of life, some of which is UK-wide and some specific to London or my situation:

Paid maternity leave
The NHS (childbirth x 3 and then 2 major operations)
The holiday allowance increased with a sabbatical every 4 years
Walkable city neighbourhood and excellent public transportation
Food/theatre/comedy/clubs/music
Excellent city parks
A better work/life balance

I would have said the weather in the UK was a downside, but in the area I lived in in the US, the fire danger is now almost year-round. A friend there nearly lost her home 2 years ago to a fire. Evacuation warnings are frequent and the summer heat unbearable. So... .??

My home is small compared to the US equivalent I could afford. But I really like my home, and it is big enough. I have a garden and really enjoy it. I love my neighbourhood. Also, I was never someone who wanted a dream home. So that's down to personal priorities.

I miss US camping - not done on a muddy field in the rain!

I miss some aspects of US culture.

I found London schooling for my dc to be of variable quality, but mainly good at primary. Occasionally great. Secondary very mixed. The same was true for friends in the US.

Each country has its pros and cons. You need to work out which aspects are most important to you.

Me? I would never move back after this Roe decision. I have daughters. Not even to a blue state. But mostly I did not choose due to big political or social reasons.

Similar here @RubricEnemy we are
moving home to the U.K. after 10years in the states in just 4 weeks

more personal reasons but honestly I feel like the US is becoming more scary, even though my little democratic bubble is actually really lovely

we did get our citizenship though because as OP has hinted, between the U.K. and the US sometimes it’s hard to tell frying pan from fire and goodness know what it’ll all look like in a decade or so

@Tandora WOMEN are the vulnerable minority! Not men who say they are women who are the most POWERFUL group of all, getting words changed, female toilets removed, etc. Your femphobia, hatred of women and internalised misogyny is sad. The fact you don't see a problem with women being raped in prisons and toilets, having our rape survivor shelters closed down, having our sports teams eroded etc says so much. You must feel so proud being a Mens Rights Activists and silencing ACTUAL vulnerable women who are losing all our rights. You must get some cred from the handmaidens and men for shitting all over women, right?

@Suima No, they are being erased by BOTH.

Just setting it straight.

This. Employment rights are virtually non existent in the US - two weeks holiday is the statutory minimum, no statutory maternity leave……

The UK is the better country to be poor in; the US is better if you're rich.

This is insightful and underpins what a PP said about principles versus risk. Many of the reasons given for staying in the US boil down to it being good if you're only looking out for yourself - if you make £££, if you live in xyz, if you ignore abc, then you'll have a great life i.e. and forget about everyone else. This is the dark underbelly of the American Dream and it feels more extreme than elsewhere because the gulf between the myth and the reality is so great. Course the UK has lots of problems and inequality is rife, but we know it and call it out. The dissonance in the US always gets to me after a few days when the gloss wears off and you see all the rot beneath. So sure you could stay and make a lot of money and be cosseted from the worst of it, but you sound too self-aware for that to really make you happy.

Homelessness in US big cities is way way beyond anything we have here.

The misogynist who is endorsing/ perpetuating violence against women is you in afraid - through your ignorance and hatred of human difference . I suggest you read whipping girl to understand the links between misogyny and transphobia.

any UK salary I earn would be significantly lower than the corresponding US salary

@Star555 - I work in a UK office, for a company based in the US. My US colleagues have a much higher salary than I do, and we do the exact same job.

However, the company's health insurance is crap for my US colleagues - their annual deductibles are ridiculously high (as I have a chronic health condition, this is something I have considered when considering my pay versus theirs).

Their annual leave entitlement is also shocking - there is no set annual leave, and it's down to manager's discretion (as in your manager gets to decide exactly how many days you have each year. In theory, some managers could decide just 5 days a year for their teams, and other managers could decide 30 ...)

Their maternity leave is also awful compared to ours. In the UK, we get the standard leave, as per laws etc. Our US colleagues get just 10 weeks. They were actually thrilled at the start of the year, as this was increased from just 6 weeks - they thought that was a big win for them. If you hope for children in the future, this would also be something to consider.

And don't get me started on their 'sick days' - they're only allowed a certain number of hours off sick each year (great if you're not sick at all, and you can use those as duvet/mental health days at the end of the year). If your body decides to become sick for more than those hours, additional time has to be taken from your normal annual leave - see above for that being up to your manager if you can take it, or not.

So yes, my colleagues get more money than I do, but in the US, I would actually end up with less money than I get now, due to the health insurance payments. I also get the other benefits.

Honestly, I compared our UK staff handbook to the US one, and was shocked at the lack of workers' rights. (Disclaimer, I am of course, just talking about one company here).

@Tandora The women like myself who recognise difference between males and females are not the ones endorsing/perpetuating violence against women. That is Mens Rights Activists and Femphobic bigots like yourself through your ignorance of basic human biological difference and your hatred of women. I suggest you read Trans: When Ideology Meets Reality by Helen Joyce to see how the promotion of harmful gender ideology by Femphobics promotes misogyny and Femphobia. Your lack of comment on women being raped in bathrooms and in prisons show your hatred, ignorance and femphobic bigotry. But you don't care about women being hurt, do you? Your ignorance of what is going on and your being so brainwashed by a harmful ideology that hurts women and children is scary. You should be ashamed of your callous indifference, bigotry and ignorance.

It's difficult with your parents (are you an only child?) but on the gun issue alone, I would never raise children in the US.

The erosion of women's rights is another issue. The abortion laws are becoming horrific, their infliction of religious views on people of different or no faith, and generally
the polarisation of politics would make me very uncomfortable.
I know the U.K. is no paradise at the moment but I completely understand why you would want to come home.

I like the US - but for holidays- in my opinion it's a country that's great if you are doing well and are healthy- but soon becomes a bit of a nightmare if anything at all goes wrong. I can't say I think the UK is that great either- but despite the current shit show if a government I do think it's more liveable for more people but choose where you live carefully.

I'd be more concerned about the 'sex based rights of women' to access abortion than trans rights. Otherwise, yes it's a difficult choice, both countries are a mess. You're still vanishingly unlikely to be involved in a shooting though. Sounds like your priorities are a bit off.

All countries have their issues.
But the US seems particularly broken at the moment especially around abortion rights, gun control and healthcare. There's also the looming danger of Trump 2024.
I'd absolutely be moving to the UK in your position.

@Moanranger you summed it up perfectly. Risk was something I accepted for years, and still do. It's the principles I can't square with.

The principle that gun rights are more important than the lives of their own children.

The principle that the poor deserve to remain poor.

The principle that "winning" (dominance) and being allowed to say mean shit when you're angry matters more than the dignity of women or people of color.

The principle that women have their place in society. That they should just exit the workforce rather than be supported if they have children. That having a child is both a choice that burdens their co-workers, and also a choice they shouldn't be allowed to make. That a wealthy person who wants a child is entitled to one, but a poor person who wants a child is a threat.

I miss my family and old friends dearly but almost all of them tell me I'm better off here.

I think it certainly has gotten like the above poster has written.the people here now,its become a really fucking mean place.id want to get out to somewhere else.not USA.europe would be a dream.our country is a shit show.the people in some sections are getting worse.good god I hate to think if we had guns!
One thing if u do move.get your parents doing the journey as soon as possible before they get the older age "fear" all the successful traveller parents I've seen has been doing it for years and therefore it become no big deal.even when older,and actually gives them some umph.

where mass shootings have become the norm

Become the norm? It's always been the norm.
I'd move back.

Thanks everyone for your thoughts! There are indeed pros and cons to both sides. But all the recent US shootings have made me feel afraid like never before, even though I live in a blue East Coast state. I know I shouldn't be paranoid, but sometimes I can't help feeling I am!

@Star555 I live in a Blue City in a Blue State with the lowest rates of gun violence and my kids’ school was on lockdown two weeks ago - I don’t think you’re paranoid. A friend told me why take them to school these last few weeks, go to the beach instead - except they’re not any safer at the beach

I'm in the US too and have adult DCs here, all of whom have dual citizenship. Four of them would love to move to the EU (Irish/US passports) and I do not see myself staying here for life. The one who is sort of stuck here has a solid career track and also BF with a career here. One of the other four could also move to Australia and set up his professional shop without any hiatus.

Beware though that continued Tory policies will turn the UK into a shadow of its former self and much more a reflection of the US than you might like.

Priti Patel gets the red carpet treatment from the Heritage Foundation and the admiration is mutual. The NHS, the cornerstone of modern UK society, is being slowly killed off.

Brexit is going to result in the independence of Scotland and the reunification of Ireland, and the diminishment of the UK to England and Wales.

It is rough in the uk at the moment but we are circular and things will get better. It is a safe country and we have the NHS.

But it is small and expensive.

You are young so you could come back for a bit and see how it goes.

OP here resurrecting this thread in light of recent events. To update my original post, I will finish my doctorate next year (2025) so I have started to look for jobs in both the US and UK.

I feel even more strongly about moving back to the UK given the US election result, but on the other hand I am concerned about being far away from my parents (one of whom has had major health issues recently), low UK salary, sorry state of NHS, etc. Salary-wise, I would earn upwards of 100K USD if I stayed in the US, but for the same type of role I would earn around 50K GBP in the UK. Which I suppose is fine if I permanently moved back to the UK where the cost of living is lower, but if I were to return to the US in a few years, I would be in a disadvantageous position with low savings.

Sometimes I feel like the nostalgic cultural aspects are the strongest factor behind my wanting to move back to the UK -- easy access to historic sites (real palaces, castles, etc.) across the UK and Europe, football and cricket, Indian food and culture being a bigger part of society in the UK compared to the US, etc. But of course no sane person should base decisions on just those! Things like better work-life balance, public transportation, etc. are relevant factors I would consider, but with everything I hear about the current state of the UK (cost of living, NHS, other Brexit/Covid effects), I'm just not sure what to think anymore.

If anyone has recently made a similar decision, or just has thoughts to share, I would love to hear them!

I am a long term US ex-Pat living in UK. I personally prefer UK for culture, traditions & sense of community. Uk has lower salaries, but better employee protections. More support for children, statutory maternity leave, child benefit. Higher relative taxes.
Access to housing are issues in both countries. I still think NHS beats US health care system any day. Current issues in UK are now being addressed, although structural issues still to be resolved. Public health v effective in UK, I have recently been offered numerous vaccines free of charge, & they seek me out, not vice versa. I am in line to get a shoulder op soon, and while this has been a bit slow, the treatment has been very good and I am being offered first class treatment. I don’t have to worry about co-pays & all that nonsense. A lot of this depends on your situation - is UK or US best (by a wide margin) for your professional development? Which country do you feel most culturally comfortable in? Etc.