Every household?????

[Trainfromredhill]

So, the chancellor is going to give every household £400 for heating. Surely there should be a cut off of household income? The Beckhams, Elton John, james Dyson, Harry styles…….they all get the money too? . I say this as someone in the fortunate position of not needing the £400- I’d much rather it went to someone who does need it.Just seems a huge waste of public money to give it to everyone

You also made choices - a choice to do a lower paid job / not train / have children earlier, and presumably you also have a choice whether to accept the benefits that higher tax payers top up.

Nice to see that poverty is still the fault of the poor isn’t it ?

This point was discussed on a similar thread. I believe these plans were drawn up as soon as it became clear that the first plan wouldn’t fly, and delayed until they knew what was in the Gray report. The announcement came the same day as the publication of the Gray report to divert attention. It’s a cynical attempt to bribe us all in the hope that we’ll forget all the crap that’s gone down come the general election.

The way in which the disabled and other benefit recipients have been treated by successive Tory governments pretty much tells you that they have no time for those they perceive as being bottom of the pile, and yet now they’re throwing money at us - it’s almost like they’ve suddenly developed a social conscience !! That is until you come to consider how all of this generosity is going to be repaid. When the time comes to settle up, you can bet your bippy that disability benefits and essential public services will be well in their sights for the cuts that will inevitably follow.

Because it’s not about how much tax you pay, it’s about how much you will struggle to pay the bills. High income households will still get the £400, but the top ups are, rightly, for those lower down the income scale.

It’s a blunt instrument within the benefits system too. There are families who are struggling and because they earn a pound or two above the means tested benefit tapers and thresholds, they miss out on a lot of support. That means they’ll also lose out here too - which is why the £400 universal payment is a good idea. It will catch those people and at least they’ll get something. Those who feel they don’t need it can maybe donate it to charity or their local food bank - thereby ‘redistributing’ it to those in more need.

It probably costs more to means test it than just make it universal

We're not actually physically receiving £400 are we? It will be deducted from our yearly energy bill by our providers therefore it will be the tenant who pays the bill who receives the grant?

Not read the whole thread admittedly so someone may have said this, but to everyone saying it's too hard/expensive to means test it in anyway, my answer is child benefit. This was universal til 2010 when it was partially taken away for this earning over £50k and fully taken away for everybody earning over £60k. This forced millions into self assessment and I think probably has been massive admin pain abs cost but proves where there is a political will to means test there is a way. I think the tories are much more willing to find ways to cut benefits for working people, who are far less likely to vote for them, than pensioners. It's also easier to means test based on income rather than wealth. I expect this is the reason that the fuel payment is going to everyone

I know more than a few families who now think unless they are going to earn over 70k then why bother earning anything over 50k now as already paying 40% tax plus NI. Not only that, it makes you wonder what else your going to be considered too rich for. That’s even without taking into the equation parents paying maintenance, uni fees etc. was silly to bring it in the first place

There are quite a few points in my post so I'm not sure which one you are referring to.
I think we are both highly cynical about the government's timing and motivation.

I disagree with the whole approach and disagree that giving a blanket £400 to everyone is a good idea. There would have been many other ways to help. Several have already been mentioned on this thread. The general £400 plus extra for pensioners is just a bung.

DH works for a utility company and sets up the systems for these kinds of payments, The utility companies have no idea how much you earn, but they can very easily set up a system that credits every household with £400. Administering any kind of means test would cost a bloody fortune, and does for those benefits that are means tested.

You can donate it to whoever you like. Please let us know who you be donating yours to.

We don't need it either but we will just spend a bit more and spending is good for the economy.

Something that I have become aware of is:
A married couple as a household earns £65,000 per year. One of them earns £51,000 and the other earns £14,000 - no benefits at all and have just had child benefit removed as one earns over the threshold.
Another married couple earns as a household £98,000 per year. They each earn £49,000 and under the threshold. No benefits but still have the child benefit.
That's a difference of £33,000!!! The system is unfair and seriously needs to be addressed

Not necessarily when we have an inflation problem, they are worried about the impact of this on inflation

It’s really cheap to administer £5billion universally. All that needs to happen is the Energy Providers supply their number of customers in a verifiable agreed way and the govt can pass on their share of the money and then the energy providers credit all their accounts with £400.

To restrict it means some kind of means testing. This means civil servants, IT systems, some qualifying criteria and a method of assessment, a method of payment, a two stage appeals process, court cases, fraud investigations. All this will gobble up a large portion of the £5billion.

Giving the £150 via a council tax rebate was a simple method but it was flawed because people living in band E or above might also be in fuel poverty

The Chancellors giving us our own money back. He'll say he took it from the Oil companies. They will reduce investment, and pay less tax. So we lose again.

It costs too much to means test, same as winter fuel payment. It’s suggested if you don’t need it you donate it to charity.

Give it to charity if you don’t need it 🤷‍♀️

Whatever the government does someone will criticiseit, the high earners pay a lot of taxes and therefore it is nice that for once they get something back (not me high eanrer) you can always give it to charity if you don't need it

Or single parents who earn 51k and get no help. I get it’s a decent salary but if someone has gone from 2 incomes to supporting 3/4 kids on one salary they will potentially still be struggling compared to 2 people earning 49k each

If 400 a year is not much for you to miss, then if you open a tax free stocks and shares ISA account and add just 400 into it each year, you will typically have 72k after 30 years by investing in a world index ETF. Anyone can do this and it would be quite handy in your retirement and costs just over £1 a day for very little risk. Einstein said compound interest was the eighth wonder of the world and he wasn't wrong!

Itsnot fair that people who have 2 homes get double. If you're hard up then sell the second property. What a piss take.

Heard on the radio yesterday the government was asking people who didn't need the money to donate it to a charity.

Sorry... What? People with second homes and high earners are complaining about getting nothing back? As someone who falls into both categories, come on. Yes we are all different, but let's not complain about how expensive it is to run 2 houses when so many people are struggling to afford one.
I pay a lot of tax, yes, and unless I am extremely, extremely unlucky, I will never have to worry about money or not being able to afford anything. And I will be increasing the amount of extra shopping to buy for the food bank trolley yet again (although if anyone knows of a better way the money could be used, please say so as I never know if it's best to just donate a lot of food or give the money directly to a charity).

Yes, this really pissed me off - wasting bloody taxpayers' money giving money to people they acknowledge don't need it and then asking them to give it to charity!

Sunak is an absolute joke, the amount of money he has wasted - wrote off billions in fraud, now giving double fuel help to people rich enough to own more than one house.

And stingy towards those on UC. The man is both unkind and incompetent.