Meet the Other Phone. Child-safe in minutes.

Meet the Other Phone.
Child-safe in minutes.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

watching a town completely die

433 replies

BlessedByTheShitFairy · 25/05/2022 13:37

This is so sad really, the town where I grew up. I know many business folded during covid and many high street staples have been closing for years, but this is different.

It's a large town, over 400K population, had a bustling, varied and thriving centre for most it's history, has now lost, and many before covid:

Debs, Next, M&S, Topshop, H&M, Body Shop, its central post office, game shops, cafes, most youth related places such as skating, bowling, carts, ALL restaurants (no exaggeration), health food stores, 2 shopping centres, most pubs, it's huge market, several banks, nightclubs, a town centre co-op, Spar, book shops, many charity shops and all of it's high end hair salons. Even the Starbucks slid off and the main post office was reduced from around 10 staff to 1 and shoved into a tiny toilet sized cubicle on the periphery of the borough.

These have been survived and replaced by - pop up eyebrow/lashes salons, fast food joints, poundshops, phone-unlocking shops, cash converter type shops, Primark (it's only remaining clothes store), Iceland, and the rest if boarded up. Interestingly a ton of privately owned car parks have taken over the area and hardly anyone uses them. It is unrecognisable from even 7 years ago. It now only attracts crime, heavy drinking, and a much less diverse population.

I know many towns have experienced closures of big brands, and things are simply changing (the net, everything online, etc) but this is really extreme, especially in comparison to a few years ago, it was not particularly suffering a decline. I do know that the council slowly sold off everything over the years, and have sent 2 huge shopping centres to their doom by selling to overseas investors who never came and filled them, so they are like enormous empty spaces that attract crime.

I don't currently live there but my remaining family that do say they never go in to town anymore, and feel forced to buy everything from standalone supermarkets in other areas.
I live in a fairly average town that has seen changes but there are also attempts at rejuvenation. Things are still ok and thriving in the centre. I am also aware that many towns are coping ok, taking the rough with the smooth, even though these issues have increased across the uk over all.

What could have happened to this one? Why so desolate and different? It is like the council just gave up sold it off and turned away. It never used to suffer so much crime, and the sound of police and ambulances is constant around the area now. The town centre was it's pride and joy, had so much put into it (festivals, events), so I can't understand how it got so bad.
Even the people who you see there now are all strangely similar (dress the same, same behaviours) and the diversity has vanished. Curiously rents are still super high and I have no idea who is taking them, if at all.

I feel sad about it because I grew up there, and have so many good memories of my teens when it was thriving, packed and full of interesting places to go and shop. The pubs were visited from far and wide, and it had a great college, access to learning, and much more culture. Now it is lucky to hold on to a handful of football clubs and that's the only interest left. Where and why did everything just die? It was previously so bloody alive.

OP posts:
oakleaffy · 25/05/2022 17:17

Am walking though Broadmead in Bristol first time post pandemic
Its bloody depressing.
So many shops empty
Debenhams M&S
it has a very sad feel since Covid.
Going up Stokes Croft now - very depressing. Lots of beggars and heroin zonked people nodding out.
Yet house prices here are high?!
Covid lockdowns Destroyed so much. 🤬😡

creamedcustard · 25/05/2022 17:17

My hometown is Bolton, and it's been gradually going to shit since the 50s with the decline of the domestic cotton weaving industry and closure of the mills. Without a replacement sector / identity (Manchester obviously got in quick with retail and entertainment), Bolton and nearby towns floundered.

I don't know what the answer is if the UK isn't focusing on producing anything beyond retail and financial services.

Titsywoo · 25/05/2022 17:18

GonnaGetGoingReturns · 25/05/2022 14:45

Where I am in SE London suburbs I've noticed Croydon go down the pan in a similar fashion. Yes it has 2 even 3 shopping centres but they're mostly shit these days.

I do have a friend who goes shopping there and another one who goes to the Rush there to get her hair done but I hate the place with a vengeance and go to Bromley or elsewhere.

Years ago there was another downfall in another high street, Streatham, which had a John Lewis there, Pratts, which was always busy. Then I think something to do with storage or something it closed and I can't remember what replaced it but it seems like the high street has got worse ever since. Streatham was a place back in the 80s/90s where you'd go for clothes, it had decent shops, a small Benetton, and Pratts was great. I swear it had a knock on effect on the housing and people buying/renting there. Croydon at that time was ironically much better.

It's not great - maybe petition/write to your MP but I've worked with architects in the past who try to regenerate town/city centres, it can work but it can take a lot of money and effort.

I was just coming on to say this - Croydon in the 90s was great and it has slowly got worse and worse and since covid I won't even go there anymore as it is so sad and also has quite a weird atmosphere (almost scary). So many town centres are going this way - I normally go to Bromley instead of Croydon but even that is starting to go the same way with empty shops or very cheap clothing stores/nail bars etc popping up.

GonnaGetGoingReturns · 25/05/2022 17:19

@Titsywoo - ah, interesting that you have the same views as me about Croydon.

I try to avoid it like the plague and same as you head to Bromley which is getting worse too but it's better (for me) than Croydon!

Titsywoo · 25/05/2022 17:20

What are people actually going into towns for now?

There are no retail parks with clothing shops in near me now. There was one but they closed all the clothes shops and now it is just furniture or carpet places. I often just go to bigger places like Bluewater or Lakeside once every 6 months and buy and clothes needed then as I know I have a good choice of shops there.

Iamthewombat · 25/05/2022 17:21

StuckonanLNERtrain · 25/05/2022 17:15

Like all Northern towns
I live in Harrogate a bleak place now. Pissed up hen dos. Cake shops and art galleries (which close after 6 months when the free lease ends)

I live 5 minutes walk from town and haven't been in for months as it is so depressing

Airbnb kills communities.

Come off it! Harrogate is as un-bleak as any town in Britain. Not many ‘bleak’ towns have a branch of Feather and Black, the most expensive cafe in Christendom (Bettys) and a Waitrose, do they?

(I don’t live in Harrogate but I know the town well).

Nanny0gg · 25/05/2022 17:21

BlessedByTheShitFairy · 25/05/2022 13:49

So do you think a problem at this level is council driven or just the collapse of the companies? Most of these companies are thriving in other towns in the same part of the country. There's definitely something amiss with this one.

I recall the H&M was always packed up to last year. It just suddenly emptied and eventually closed. Primark is very active!

If it's like our town, business rates and parking (£9 for half a day) unless you park miles away didn't help

But all we have are restaurants and cafes (and nail bars etc)

ssd · 25/05/2022 17:22

A lot of Glasgow city centre is similar now. And we were brilliant before.

pixie5121 · 25/05/2022 17:23

This reply has been withdrawn

Withdrawn at poster's request.

StuckonanLNERtrain · 25/05/2022 17:25

Iamthewombat · 25/05/2022 17:21

Come off it! Harrogate is as un-bleak as any town in Britain. Not many ‘bleak’ towns have a branch of Feather and Black, the most expensive cafe in Christendom (Bettys) and a Waitrose, do they?

(I don’t live in Harrogate but I know the town well).

Says someone who doesnt live there and clearly doesnt know it well

What good is luxury bed shops and dress shop when you cant buy a towel? or a suitcase?

Towns die when there is no pull for locals. Harrogate has nothing that would make you go in at the moment.

But hey Oliver Bonas and another overpriced cake shop have just been approved.

You cant live on cake, art and beds!

Iamthewombat · 25/05/2022 17:26

Airbnb kills communities.

I don’t think that Airbnb is the root of the problems experienced by Wigan, Bolton and other towns on the M62/M61/M66 corridors!

GonnaGetGoingReturns · 25/05/2022 17:26

Surely this applies to lots of town/city centres? I wonder why councils are just letting them all die off?

StuckonanLNERtrain · 25/05/2022 17:29

My DDs friend is 26 and had a lowish paid service type job (most of Harrogate is service type jobs)

She rented a run down flat in town for £600 a month. Landlord out rent up to £800 last year. Now wants £1300 as that is what he will make on airbnb

Airbn and so that pisseed up hen dos ca come an urinate and vomit in the streets. You cant go into town after 4pm on Saturday without seeing the knickers of a Middle Aged woman around her ankles.

Iamthewombat · 25/05/2022 17:30

StuckonanLNERtrain · 25/05/2022 17:25

Says someone who doesnt live there and clearly doesnt know it well

What good is luxury bed shops and dress shop when you cant buy a towel? or a suitcase?

Towns die when there is no pull for locals. Harrogate has nothing that would make you go in at the moment.

But hey Oliver Bonas and another overpriced cake shop have just been approved.

You cant live on cake, art and beds!

You described Harrogate as ‘bleak’. It is clearly not bleak. Why would you refuse to visit your local town, five minutes’ walk away, because you “can’t buy a towel or a suitcase”? Feels rather like cutting off your nose to spite your face. You can buy those things in Leeds if you can’t find them in Harrogate. Can a town only meet your standards if it sells everything you could possibly need? And if it fails to supply one thing, despite a range of lovely shops and cafes, is it ‘bleak’? Don’t be silly.

StuckonanLNERtrain · 25/05/2022 17:30

Iamthewombat · 25/05/2022 17:26

Airbnb kills communities.

I don’t think that Airbnb is the root of the problems experienced by Wigan, Bolton and other towns on the M62/M61/M66 corridors!

Different things kill different communities.

CurbsideProphet · 25/05/2022 17:31

I'm sorry if this has already been said but there are restaurants left in Wigan and The Old Courts is being transformed by a community group, but definitely agree the town centre is devoid of any life. Hopefully the council plans for the new market / cinema etc are successful. We're only 30 mins away but never go.

ParsleyRosemarySage · 25/05/2022 17:31

I’ll go back and read all the thread in a mo.

This has been happening all over the county for years, and yes it long pre dates Covid. High rates are a large part of it. People blame the Councils, which is correct sometimes: we all need to remember, and tell the world of need be, that those rises are mandated by central government.

I was working for a council in the early 00s when we were told - by a Labour government, thank you very much - that any and all income streams HAD to be maximised, simply because that was the daddy policy at the time; any who remember New Labour will remember that it was all about the worst combinations of private market ethics in the public sector, forcing public sector services to become money making institutions to any extent that they could. Even the libraries were told to maximise fines. These were deliberate policies chosen by central government and they made a mockery of everything the public sector was supposed to be and do.

Another reason for the death of the High Street is the rise of rents. We all know about the housing market and how unaffordable it is: few seem to recognise how badly that is also impacting on businesses, especially small and medium businesses. It has killed markets as well as shops.

Of course the internet is a third reason, but internet businesses are more successful precisely because they do not need to offset costs incurred.

This is an important topic, because it is killing our economy, and “the economy” is not just a phrase for statisticians and politicians to score points off. It’s how each and every one of us makes a living: it governs how we survive from day to day. Sorry this is long, it’s a topic that’s been annoying me for years because we are all being impoverished, dangerously so now, and that will result in increasing conflicts in times to come, just for a central politician’s fads and point scores. <and breathe> <and go back to read>

Shortbread49 · 25/05/2022 17:32

Yes York it’s awful on a Saturday I avoid it although must admit didn’t realise Harrogate was the same . Don’t want my children encountering blow up dolls in the middle of a Saturday afternoon !

ParsleyRosemarySage · 25/05/2022 17:32

Faddy policy, not daddy!

StuckonanLNERtrain · 25/05/2022 17:34

Iamthewombat · 25/05/2022 17:30

You described Harrogate as ‘bleak’. It is clearly not bleak. Why would you refuse to visit your local town, five minutes’ walk away, because you “can’t buy a towel or a suitcase”? Feels rather like cutting off your nose to spite your face. You can buy those things in Leeds if you can’t find them in Harrogate. Can a town only meet your standards if it sells everything you could possibly need? And if it fails to supply one thing, despite a range of lovely shops and cafes, is it ‘bleak’? Don’t be silly.

Seeing people urinating everywhere is bleak. Lying on the floor in their own vomit

The drugs are very bad at the moment - had to call an ambulance a few times when out walking the dog recently. Just because people are passed out in front of Waitrose rather than a boarded up shop doesn't mean that issues are not there.

It s very naive to think that green towns do not have issues.

Towns die when locals give up on them. Locals are in despair about Harrogate at the moment - as are businesses.

lightisnotwhite · 25/05/2022 17:35

nearlyspringyay · 25/05/2022 14:15

Out of town retail and the internet. I work in this field and it's not just your town.

WFH has also killed many businesses. The rates situation hasn't helped.

A lot of towns are now looking at converting to resi with the help of levelling up funding but that hasn't been fairly awarded.

The traditional high street won't recover.

I don't get your point about male centric, that's supply and demand.

It’s not supply and demand. Plenty of queues in both banks and post office but they are closing anyway.
How can you have demand if there’s no supply?

Interesting point about it catering to male hobbies.We have lots of independent boutique shops for the well off SAHM/WFH mums. We have gyms but they are out of town and several are boot camp type places for women near parks and the rugby grounds. A few barbers but no muscle gyms or I cheap booze places etc although we obviously have men and poor men at that.

Overthewine · 25/05/2022 17:35

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ at the poster's request.

DressingPafe · 25/05/2022 17:35

I've been to Japan a couple of times and travelled round a bit. I thought about this a lot when I was there as their town/city centres are absolutely thriving. They have just as much access to online shopping as us so I wondered why this was.

Fact is, shopping there is a joy. You can get all manner of things, things you didn't know existed or didn't know you needed! So many lovely cafes to stop and have a coffee/lunch. Customer service is off the scale good. If I was there and wanted to buy someone a present I'd have so much choice. Here I resort to Amazon! I never now go shopping in this country for "pleasure".

Sadly I think it's too late to change things here. I don't see any answers.

StuckonanLNERtrain · 25/05/2022 17:35

Shortbread49 · 25/05/2022 17:32

Yes York it’s awful on a Saturday I avoid it although must admit didn’t realise Harrogate was the same . Don’t want my children encountering blow up dolls in the middle of a Saturday afternoon !

I used to go to York and be horrified when my children were little. I remember a woman stopping in front of my daughter in the street and weeing all over her feet (hers and my DDs)
Harrogate is now the same.

BelleTheBananas · 25/05/2022 17:36

OP, someone started a thread on here a few months ago about Wigan. She had similar complaints to you, but I think she was also upset at the lack of opportunities and ensuing lack of aspiration amongst residents.

From memory, it’s halfway between Liverpool and Manchester, both of which are a bigger draw than lots of North West towns. I assume what’s happened is that the more aspirational kids have left to go to uni/to a job in the city and left Wigan behind. My home city (near Wales) is similar.

Swipe left for the next trending thread