watching a town completely die

[BlessedByTheShitFairy]

This is so sad really, the town where I grew up. I know many business folded during covid and many high street staples have been closing for years, but this is different.

It's a large town, over 400K population, had a bustling, varied and thriving centre for most it's history, has now lost, and many before covid:

Debs, Next, M&S, Topshop, H&M, Body Shop, its central post office, game shops, cafes, most youth related places such as skating, bowling, carts, ALL restaurants (no exaggeration), health food stores, 2 shopping centres, most pubs, it's huge market, several banks, nightclubs, a town centre co-op, Spar, book shops, many charity shops and all of it's high end hair salons. Even the Starbucks slid off and the main post office was reduced from around 10 staff to 1 and shoved into a tiny toilet sized cubicle on the periphery of the borough.

These have been survived and replaced by - pop up eyebrow/lashes salons, fast food joints, poundshops, phone-unlocking shops, cash converter type shops, Primark (it's only remaining clothes store), Iceland, and the rest if boarded up. Interestingly a ton of privately owned car parks have taken over the area and hardly anyone uses them. It is unrecognisable from even 7 years ago. It now only attracts crime, heavy drinking, and a much less diverse population.

I know many towns have experienced closures of big brands, and things are simply changing (the net, everything online, etc) but this is really extreme, especially in comparison to a few years ago, it was not particularly suffering a decline. I do know that the council slowly sold off everything over the years, and have sent 2 huge shopping centres to their doom by selling to overseas investors who never came and filled them, so they are like enormous empty spaces that attract crime.

I don't currently live there but my remaining family that do say they never go in to town anymore, and feel forced to buy everything from standalone supermarkets in other areas.
I live in a fairly average town that has seen changes but there are also attempts at rejuvenation. Things are still ok and thriving in the centre. I am also aware that many towns are coping ok, taking the rough with the smooth, even though these issues have increased across the uk over all.

What could have happened to this one? Why so desolate and different? It is like the council just gave up sold it off and turned away. It never used to suffer so much crime, and the sound of police and ambulances is constant around the area now. The town centre was it's pride and joy, had so much put into it (festivals, events), so I can't understand how it got so bad.
Even the people who you see there now are all strangely similar (dress the same, same behaviours) and the diversity has vanished. Curiously rents are still super high and I have no idea who is taking them, if at all.

I feel sad about it because I grew up there, and have so many good memories of my teens when it was thriving, packed and full of interesting places to go and shop. The pubs were visited from far and wide, and it had a great college, access to learning, and much more culture. Now it is lucky to hold on to a handful of football clubs and that's the only interest left. Where and why did everything just die? It was previously so bloody alive.

But I don't see why a small amount of money shouldn't go into keeping the town centre clean, painted, litter free, but that seems to be beyond the wit of our local councillors.
I will write today ,instead of just whingeing.

The U.K. still has a strong economy though? Is it fifth or sixth in size globally

List here based on World Bank info

globalpeoservices.com/top-15-countries-by-gdp-in-2022/

It does take entrepreneurial energy and cash to get things changing. We had an old cinema that had gone out of use. One man started a campaign, got funding and now it’s amazing and people go for the luxury experience of drinks at tables, talks, food. I don’t bother with the multiplexes but I got there as it’s a nice experience. It has lead to other businesses opening around it.

I think people with money should do more for their home towns rather than hoard it and spend it on themselves. It sounds like a dream but it’s more normal in the US and does happen in the UK sometimes

www.worldometers.info/gdp/gdp-per-capita/

It probably is more relevant to look at our wealth on a per capita basis. We are way down the list. Yes we are still a wealthy country relative to most of the world but our high economic wealth is not shared as equally as many other countries.

It's very simple- people need to wake up and stop voting for the Conservatives. They have utterly destroyed the country whilst siphoning all the money off to private investors. They've sold off anything that isn't nailed down for a profit. People need to wake up and start asking where all the money is- as it certainly isn't being invested in the country. Education, Policing and the NHS all in ruins whilst the Tories and their rich mates are laughing all the way to the bank. The number of billionaires has never been higher and the gap between rich and poor has never been wider. We have the worst poverty since Victorian times. Yes the Boris sycophants still defend him whilst he lies and fills his pockets and that of his friends.

Yes!! Agree.

it’s the Tory gov who are underfunding town councils

the gap between UK rich and poor is ever growing, more food banks etc yet people keep voting for them?!

Yes we are still a wealthy country relative to most of the world but our high economic wealth is not shared as equally as many other countries.

We are wealthy, in terms of inequality we’re just above Aus and below Italy. Further away from US although some other European countries lower, Scandinavian lower still

worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/gini-coefficient-by-country

Out of interest I had a look to see if Labour governments had redirected in any way v Cons and the general trend doesn’t reverse under Labour, I think it was highest towards end of Blair?

And has gone down a bit since

www.statista.com/statistics/872472/gini-index-of-the-united-kingdom/

We are wealthy, in terms of inequality we’re just above Aus and below Italy. Further away from US although some other European countries lower, Scandinavian lower still

I don't think it's something to be proud of though. We are in the top 6 richest* *countries but as far down as 26th when it comes to per capita.

It’s a shame you skipped the inequality higher under Blair’s Labour.

I was interested to see that was the case but it’s not talked about much.

Sounds the same as what happened with Bolton. It used to have a waterpark when I was a kid. The latest designer shops outside Manchester such as Tammy girl, Debenhams, miss Selfridge.they’ve all gone. The once populated Marketplace which used to be bustling is now virtually empty. vape shops everywhere. Homeless people on every corner. Full of litter everywhere. Run down, depressing.

My gut feeling is that most of these towns went wrong in the 60s when they became dominated by traffic and 'modern' architecture. Horrid 60s/70s concrete buildings, big multi-lane A-roads in the town centre etc. Unpleasant to visit. Plus many of these towns are also near big cities and people prefer visiting the city.

In terms of solutions, it could really help with the UK's housing crisis if new homes were built in these town centres. But at present these aren't desirable locations to live.

So I would knock down the empty 60s shopping centres and office blocks and instead replace with massive parks with big trees, areas for wildlife, playgrounds, recreation areas, cycle paths etc. Then build housing nearby. Many of these towns could then be used as pleasant green commuter towns.

Realise this will never happen but can't see any future unless someone really radical is done!

But mine isn’t, mine is/was a beautiful historic centre but now full of barbers shops and nail bars, with their tacky, plastic hoardings and out of keeping shop fronts. Really low standards.

Local people say they want new shops, they want a range of providers….and yet when they do open often as small local independents, no one uses them and they shut down We can’t have it all ways. Businesses are not charities. Owners need to make a living., yet we continue to choose to buy cheaper online.

‘Use it or lose it’.

IMO the loss of the town centres due to the fact there's no longer amenities such as cinemas, libraries, playgrounds, leisure centres actually in the town centres combined with the development of retail parks and public transport being expensive, unreliable, grotty.

Shops on their own don't make a vibrant place - you need a mixed of services - opticians, dentists, library, leisure facilities, useful shops and more family focused entertainment venues. But you also need excellent, cheap, clean, reliable public transport and not too much competition from the retail parks.

I bloody hate retail parks - but I am also fed up of it taking 1 hour to get into my local town centre by public transport and it not being a very pleasant experience.

Why are town centre shops still doing 9 to 5.30 opening though? Everyone is working then. 10am to 6.30 would be a start.
Niw the high street banks and post offices are closing there are even fewer reasons to go to a town centre.so I still think theming towns would work. Give places an identity.

I very rarely go into my small local town because it seems more often than not, the businesses I want to use are closed in the middle of the normal working day anyway. For instance, I went to the local Timpsons branch and it was closed with a sign on the door saying "back in 15 minutes". I went back 45 minutes later and it was still closed. I went in another day and it was closed again, so I gave up. Theres a nice baked potato takeaway thats meant to be open til 8pm but its become a joke between DH and me that is closed more often than its open. Ditto the dry cleaners who does clothing alterations. I appreciate they may have trouble recruiting or if they are one man bands then they need time to do stuff themselves, but its very difficult to use businesses when they don't bother to be open during their advertised hours!

I agree. The recent money spent in our city was more shops and eating places and looks great and I'm not convinced it's actually increased footfall past first month rather than just redistributed what would already be there - so have to see how it does long term.

They do at least tend to close Monday/Tuesday in the town and new bit - which wasn't well advertised but did become slowly known.

A lot of things on that list have gone from town center - it's really only shopping bringing people in - and frankly there are many other options for that including on-line.

The lesure stuff is increasingly at out of town locations and issue for us as we have to use buses or taxi to access - I think it's an issue the local teens as well as either a parents need to give lifts or they have to pay out for buses - also an increasing issue with them and p/t work - buses aren't cheap and here can be two needed.

Agree. Pretty cathedral cities and market towns seem to be fine on the whole. City planners chose not to make places beautiful and look where we are 🤷‍♀️

@MarshaBradyo labour haven't been in power for years. The tories have. Something like 3/4 of the last 100 years. Read fullfact.orgs opinion and it's very different from what you are saying. Labour weren't amazing but they made some progress.

Odessa I posted the Gini coefficient figures over the years so it’s not really my view but an economic measure that is known and accepted.

fwiw like many others I voted for Blair and looking back see it as a time that felt optimistic and with opportunity. It’s the kind of positioning that I prefer - more upbeat about the UK and where it can go. I don’t get that from Labour atm but maybe they’ll get better on this front.

But yes I was surprised the figure was highest towards the end of Labour and lower now.

Although I did think it was a pretty good period I’ll add the caveat not the illegal war part.

@Beecham bolton town centre was thriving in the 90’s during the spice girls/blur/oasis era
waterpark, it had designer shops that you would normally need to go to the big towns for like Miss selfridge and Zara. It had a renown market selling fresh fish like turbot and lobster which was reasonably sourced. In the 90’s this was rare.

the council ran it to the ground. Bolton opted out of optioning into the introduction of metrolink which connected all the towns to Manchester and now Trafford centre and the airport.

it’s now a very sorry depressed town with no shops aand homeless people on every corner where no one wants to go. Debenhams was it’s lifeline. That’s now gone. The others have followed

@MarshaBradyo I live in one of the northern towns discussed above and it's difficult to feel optimistic about the town's future. Maybe if you live in london and the South East life under the tories is full of hope and opportunities, up here it's just depressing. Levelling up is a joke and an insult to the people who voted for this shower of incompetents. When equally deprived towns have to fight for funding to remedy issues caused in part by the tories fiscal mismanagement forgive me for not believing a thing they say.

@MarshaBradyo I think it's probably fairer to say life in SE/London 'despite' the Tory's- and it really depends where you live- I can assure you life in say Marlow doesn't feel the same as life in Croydon or Sittingbourne - the South east isn't one homogenous stockbroker belt.

Oh I can see that Crikey and Odessa

I think my first post was to say I get that it must be really hard to see the decline, and I can understand the feeling. I probably drifted off topic as I was having a read of stuff.

But I can see that it must be awful to see towns decline. I’ve only lived in London in U.K. but grew up rurally o/s and some places have similar issues.