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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

watching a town completely die

433 replies

BlessedByTheShitFairy · 25/05/2022 13:37

This is so sad really, the town where I grew up. I know many business folded during covid and many high street staples have been closing for years, but this is different.

It's a large town, over 400K population, had a bustling, varied and thriving centre for most it's history, has now lost, and many before covid:

Debs, Next, M&S, Topshop, H&M, Body Shop, its central post office, game shops, cafes, most youth related places such as skating, bowling, carts, ALL restaurants (no exaggeration), health food stores, 2 shopping centres, most pubs, it's huge market, several banks, nightclubs, a town centre co-op, Spar, book shops, many charity shops and all of it's high end hair salons. Even the Starbucks slid off and the main post office was reduced from around 10 staff to 1 and shoved into a tiny toilet sized cubicle on the periphery of the borough.

These have been survived and replaced by - pop up eyebrow/lashes salons, fast food joints, poundshops, phone-unlocking shops, cash converter type shops, Primark (it's only remaining clothes store), Iceland, and the rest if boarded up. Interestingly a ton of privately owned car parks have taken over the area and hardly anyone uses them. It is unrecognisable from even 7 years ago. It now only attracts crime, heavy drinking, and a much less diverse population.

I know many towns have experienced closures of big brands, and things are simply changing (the net, everything online, etc) but this is really extreme, especially in comparison to a few years ago, it was not particularly suffering a decline. I do know that the council slowly sold off everything over the years, and have sent 2 huge shopping centres to their doom by selling to overseas investors who never came and filled them, so they are like enormous empty spaces that attract crime.

I don't currently live there but my remaining family that do say they never go in to town anymore, and feel forced to buy everything from standalone supermarkets in other areas.
I live in a fairly average town that has seen changes but there are also attempts at rejuvenation. Things are still ok and thriving in the centre. I am also aware that many towns are coping ok, taking the rough with the smooth, even though these issues have increased across the uk over all.

What could have happened to this one? Why so desolate and different? It is like the council just gave up sold it off and turned away. It never used to suffer so much crime, and the sound of police and ambulances is constant around the area now. The town centre was it's pride and joy, had so much put into it (festivals, events), so I can't understand how it got so bad.
Even the people who you see there now are all strangely similar (dress the same, same behaviours) and the diversity has vanished. Curiously rents are still super high and I have no idea who is taking them, if at all.

I feel sad about it because I grew up there, and have so many good memories of my teens when it was thriving, packed and full of interesting places to go and shop. The pubs were visited from far and wide, and it had a great college, access to learning, and much more culture. Now it is lucky to hold on to a handful of football clubs and that's the only interest left. Where and why did everything just die? It was previously so bloody alive.

OP posts:
BorisJohnsonatemyhampster · 25/05/2022 22:00

Councils have been cut to the bone by central government. What you’re seeing is the result of over a decade of austerity.

Also it’s not about parking charges. Where I live used to have heavy traffic and hardly any open shops. People were just driving past or driving out to bigger shopping centres but in recent years it’s become heavily pedestrianised. The locals use the recently new gift shops, restaurants and pubs so they aren’t massively reliant on people driving from other areas. In fact the pedestrianisation makes it more attractive for families who can sit outside a pub and their kids can play around out front without fear of being run over. There also isn’t that heavy traffic sound which is stressful if you want to sit outside and have lunch and a chat with a friend.

The population is diverse in multiple ways including age, ethnicity and sex so when people come to the area it feels welcoming. This makes more people want to move to the area and so it’s a positive circle.

If people want their area to survive they have to be willing to spend money locally and spend time there so it looks lively and attractive. Wringing hands and saying you’re not going to your local town because it costs the glass of wine to park will just hasten the demise.

Crikeyalmighty · 25/05/2022 22:12

@DanglingMod Are you in Bath??sounds pretty like it

BlessedByTheShitFairy · 25/05/2022 22:14

Austerity definitely didn't help. At least the homelessness/addiction issue became very quickly visible throughout the north west at that time. The issues are multilayered and began before this, but I do think it was the final nail in the coffin.

The bedroom tax, often completely overlooked as it only affected council residents, was a disaster.

OP posts:
daimbarsatemydogsbone · 25/05/2022 22:28

All those people bemoaning the demise of their local Debenhams are missing something I think - the last Debenhams anywhere closed in 2021 so it's not because your town/city is too shit for one!

DanglingMod · 25/05/2022 22:31

Crikeyalmighty · 25/05/2022 22:12

@DanglingMod Are you in Bath??sounds pretty like it

No. Similar size and level of tourism, possibly, but less "posh" and further north.

I honestly think the main reason some places are doing better than others is geography. Think somewhere like Norwich is where I am. Nothing else for miles around means no competition, means people still use the High St, means it is thriving and money attracts money.

(Plus a university, a world renowned cathedral etc etc.)

Crikeyalmighty · 25/05/2022 22:31

I do think there are so many different reasons- having moved back from Copenhagen , I can now kind of compare and see where some differences are Denmark doesn't allow Amazon- you can get some from Amazon Sweden and Amazon Germany but you pay quite a decent amount for delivery- no Prime- so they lose their price competitive edge compared to city centre shops. Consequently you do get amazing home and wear stores, good bookshops , toy shops etc . There is too a culture of a great deal of free or very cheap parking , both at the malls which are reasonably central and non malls - I had forgotten how expensive it is here for parking. They also have a great metro and a lot of cycling. Reading these posts I can see to be honest why many are reluctant to move out of semi ok areas in London - I've always had the philosophy that we pay more for our home and less for some other stuff but we pick university cities/towns or touristy places as whilst not perfect they tend to tick over reasonably ok- we have rented a house on outskirts of Windsor - somewhere we've lived before- yep it's got a fair amount of empty stuff but other stuff opening and does still have a fantastic department store, lots of nice eating and drinking places, a TK maxx , an M&S and tons of clothes shops , a lovely indoor soft play centre, plus lovely parkland plus good train links and crossrail 3 miles away - downside tourists and aircraft noise! One of the UKs problems is towns have been over developed retail wise and now there is masses of excess space but shopping habits have changed. We now have hugely underfunded councils too

Sootir3d · 25/05/2022 22:36

I was in Harrogate a couple of weeks ago too for the first time since covid and marvelled at how it seems to have thrived instead of died. It is a rich area and of course where there is money there is drugs. They go hand in hand.

Beverley was another place I was in recently which was full of bustling shops. We could only dream of having a high street like that.

I

DanglingMod · 25/05/2022 22:37

It's really sad that towns and cities are losing branches of Next, M&S etc though, along with things like HoF. Ours are all heaving (maybe not HoF since it went a bit downmarket).

BlessedByTheShitFairy · 25/05/2022 22:49

I live in an ok place but still have to travel on a train for over an hour to get to a John Lewis or H&M.

I also think there's more to losing our town centres and shops than is obvious at first glance. It has, for a good chunk of history, been something that gets people out of the house, going for coffee and a mooch around. It is a form of exercise, and many of us over a certain age are just so used to it. I am not too concerned about the actual shopping itself, but i do prefer to see clothes prior to purchasing them. However, what I miss the most is just sauntering about, meeting friends, a bit of freedom and time alone sometimes.... it was multifaceted, and not just simply consumerism. I miss that, and now many of us have to travel out to a city centre to access this feeling.

I think it was a huge part of our lives, something you don't notice until it's gone. A lot of women, historically, loved shopping because it was a safe way to get out alone and just piss around indulging oneself Grin

OP posts:
ChagSameachDoreen · 25/05/2022 22:53

Sootir3d · 25/05/2022 22:36

I was in Harrogate a couple of weeks ago too for the first time since covid and marvelled at how it seems to have thrived instead of died. It is a rich area and of course where there is money there is drugs. They go hand in hand.

Beverley was another place I was in recently which was full of bustling shops. We could only dream of having a high street like that.

I

Harrogate? Drugs??

DanglingMod · 25/05/2022 22:54

I agree, OP.

I'd much rather pay 5 quid to park and have a mooch in a city or town centre than go to a soulless out of town place. (We don't really have those. Well, we do, for things like white goods/Hobbycraft etc but town centre is much bigger/better for clothes, gifts, books and eating/drinking)

DanglingMod · 25/05/2022 23:11

And that's without mentioning the library, museums and their events, art galleries, buskers, European street food, artists' markets, antiques markets, pop up kids' events like a beach and crazy golf in the summer, street theatre, statue trails etc... you don't get any of those things in out of town developments!

Diverseopinions · 25/05/2022 23:15

I think business rates should be abolished. Shops serve a community service, keeping the pavements clean, decorations the streets with window boxes and planters, sometimes; helping tourists and disorientated people. They provide school goers with valuable experience at a formative age.

BlessedByTheShitFairy · 25/05/2022 23:19

Diverseopinions · 25/05/2022 23:15

I think business rates should be abolished. Shops serve a community service, keeping the pavements clean, decorations the streets with window boxes and planters, sometimes; helping tourists and disorientated people. They provide school goers with valuable experience at a formative age.

agree with this.

OP posts:
XenoBitch · 25/05/2022 23:23

My town is dying. It is a large commuter town in Wiltshire. The town centre is a dump. Tons of empty units, and the ones that have a business in are phone unlocking ones, charity shops, or those dodgy "all clothing for £5" stores.
Debenhams fucked off, as did House of Fraser outlet. Even Sainsury's and Morrisons shut their shops. Now we just have an overpriced Tesco Express.
Our hospital is constantly groaning at the seams. Even pre-Covid, we had warnings about avoiding A&E unless you were about to drop. More houses keep being built, but the infrastructure to support the people that come with that is not forthcoming.

lechatestsurlemat · 25/05/2022 23:25

Is it Sunderland, by any chance?

UniQuery · 25/05/2022 23:25

Not sure if this has been mentioned but I wonder whether rather than harking back to the old high street/ shops model we should redevelop towns as places for people to live in.

Not easy I know but rather than destroying green fields for more houses why not use the defunct town shopping centre space instead.

This could be combined with things that support home working e.g. small rental office units and people centred services such as medical centres, library and commercial units that support internet shopping e.g. delivery hubs maybe with showrooms/ places to try on clothes so you don't have to take them home and send back if they don't fit. And green spaces.

Once more people are actually living in a place this could support small businesses such as cafe/ restaurant. Weekend pop up market etc.

mmmmmmghturep · 25/05/2022 23:27

I live in a town in North Essex and its the same here. The only clothes shops left in the town are New Look and Peacocks. I got a national book token for Christmas and finally attempted to spend it last week. The only place here that will take it is WH Smith. I bought a book there with it then attempted to spend it in Sainsburys (i assumed that it would be accepted there as the tagline is the gift card that is accepted everywhere and ive never had a book token before) It wasnt accepted there as its for bookshops only. Our only independent bookshop closed back in 2011 as they couldnt compete with the supermarkets selling books at lower prices yet the supermarkets do not stock as wide a range as Hannay Booksellers did Our WH Smith doesnt either. The latter is the only place i can spend the rest of the token locally. Whenever i want a specific book that i cant get hold of i place a phone order with Waterstones in Chelmsford and pay by credit card. Their service with this has been brilliant Cant fault them. Ordered a book from them on Monday and it arrived today. I dont shop online oh hang on the one time i tried was a book from Amazon that never turned up ordered on DHs account. It doesnt encourage me to try again.

Johnnysgirl · 25/05/2022 23:29

UniQuery · 25/05/2022 23:25

Not sure if this has been mentioned but I wonder whether rather than harking back to the old high street/ shops model we should redevelop towns as places for people to live in.

Not easy I know but rather than destroying green fields for more houses why not use the defunct town shopping centre space instead.

This could be combined with things that support home working e.g. small rental office units and people centred services such as medical centres, library and commercial units that support internet shopping e.g. delivery hubs maybe with showrooms/ places to try on clothes so you don't have to take them home and send back if they don't fit. And green spaces.

Once more people are actually living in a place this could support small businesses such as cafe/ restaurant. Weekend pop up market etc.

Definitely something in this.

lameasahorse · 25/05/2022 23:31

This reply has been withdrawn

Message from MNHQ: This post has been withdrawn

lechatestsurlemat · 25/05/2022 23:32

You can use Book Tokens online. My Mum sends me loads and I buy books online from Blackwell's.

UniQuery · 25/05/2022 23:35

Actually I've now discovered that the government has had the same idea as me - must be the first time ever.

See here: www.gov.uk/government/publications/build-back-better-high-streets

Crikeyalmighty · 25/05/2022 23:43

@DanglingMod I totally agree with you. Places like Norwich, Bath, oxford, winchester , Cheltenham - geography plays a big part - focal point for lots of rural villages, Universities/colleges/. , tourism etc - they attract people with more cash who spend more on goods and services-- a viscious circle really

BlessedByTheShitFairy · 25/05/2022 23:52

it's the 'build back better' that doesn't wash with me.
more useless, pointless slogans that never materialise, unless hinging on some disparate votes for a general election.

OP posts:
BlessedByTheShitFairy · 25/05/2022 23:57

i mean the three B's!
Fuck off Boris.

Sorry everyone, im allergic to political slogans.

OP posts:
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