Part 4 AIBU to keep this discussion on Amber and Jonny going?

[ENoeuf]

Just in case we run out on part 3

58 "a creepy old man"

You know your audience, I hope? We are mostly in our early 40s and early 50s, I imagine.

I think you mean " middle aged"

That might be true in your community / culture but I have never ever heard that sentiment in my almost 50 years of life. There are tons of services, crisis lines, programs for women and there are many many families who support their loved ones and don't have a "you were married off" attitude - as I said, this is the first time I have ever even heard of that attitude towards women.

Why would you tell your son to get away from her if men can't be victims because they always have the power / priviledge?

Amber's team has rested their case and JD's team is now arguing their motion to dismiss.

Well imagine that, there is plenty of world out there other than English speaking western one where women have shelters. That is hugely disproportionate and not representative at all of women across world. Majority of women are still dependent on men this or that way and have little options. You don't need to go far either, plenty of it in"Western"places too(womens shelters are overcrowded so not sure why you mention it as problem solved. Once we don't need them anymore then I'll take it as a sign that things are good for women).

I would tell him to get away so I can see what is going on. At the end of the day that is what you do, you don't try to hit back-YOU LEAVE or stop the attack if you can in self defence. Women aren't able to overpower men in this way and often have to defend themself with counter attack. It is not the same so don't try to equate everything. If women became extraordinarily and on par with men in strenght then we'll talk about it in"equal terms", until then it's pointless.

Re Johnny old creepy man-he certainly is to me. He doesn't look like a vital middle aged man, he looks mid 60s. I don't call women old, I may call them older or mature because I know what negative connotations old brings to women. It does not hurt men who still have most power to call them old. Get over it.

Anyway I'm getting off topic rant over

You are right. There is a wide global where women have few rights. However we have been talking about the context of the UK and the US.

I hope you don't have sons,...or daughters. That is all I will say.

I think you are being pathetic with"I hope you don't have kids". What you read rang true so you ran to your privileged"I don't like you and am entitled to say whether you should reproduce or not". I hope you don't get much chance to repeat that to anyone. That is all I will say.

It makes no sense that it’s ok to call men names due to their age but not women and that it causes no harm. Isn’t this toxic feminism I don’t think it’s what feminism is about. It’s not about putting men down to protect women it’s about ensuring women are not being discriminated against or treated differently or badly because they are a woman. This is why this whole argument about male DV victims is whack, if it’s based on the fact it happens more to women doesn’t mean it never happens to men

No. You misunderstood. It would be sad for both your sons and daughters to grow up with your view of men and women. Women are far more capable than you give them credit for and men are not immune to harm. Same as someone raising their sons to be incels or any other highly sexist and discriminatory view - I wish their parents didn't have kids either. Whenever parents hold sexist and discriminatory views that harm their daughters and sons - I would prefer there weren't children being raised with these harmful views.

You still don't get to say who should have kids or not.

Feminism centers women, not men. Feminism is not a movement that caters to mens feelings, me calling a man old is irrelevant.

I think this is such a short-sighted view. There are many men that suffer domestic abuse and violence in their home that never report it because they fear people will laugh at them or scorn them because they are being abused by a woman. They don't fight back because that's not their nature or they've learned not to fight back. You're basically backing up that view with the words that men can defend themselves,so we don't need to worry about that form of violence.

I don't control whether or not anyone has kids but I certainly can have an opinion as to various groups of people that I think shouldn't have kids. I do get to say my opinion - my opinion is not linked to the sexual activity of people in those groups and whether or not they reproduce.

That’s not what it means to me though

Well feminism is not haiku, it's not"describe what feminism means to you"and then bam that's legit feminism. It doesn't work that way. It's not a"pick which feminism suits you"and it's not"humanism". Women may call it different names but it always comes down to basic principles of having ALL women liberated from patriarchy, from bottom to top, otherwise it is not feminism. If feminists argued for"mutual abuse"theory we would never have women's shelters

Me neither. Frankly, you just sound hard of thinking.

There are a group of peoole who are on YouTube who go to the trial in person every day and they report on how the jury reacted to different bits of testimony. And they are rolling their eyes, face palming, closing their eyes and slumping in their chairs. A couple of days ago they were showing filed depositions in the afternoon and when one finished, two jurors got up and tried to leave in the hope it was over. Haha. So it's interesting because things that we talk about being impactful on here seem to have no effect on the jury.
But, yes, a lot of rolling of eyes.

Could we get back on track please? I was loving the comments (relating to this trial) Some very clever posters (male or female) posting.

Well the motion to strike was denied. Not surprising

I am not going to go around in circles but liberating women from patriarchy does not mean you have to hate men, wish ill of them, insult them and belittle their experiences. It just achieves bitterness and enforces the gap between men and women. We don’t want men to hate women so why would we encourage women to hate men?!

@adriftabroad and you sound snotty and snobbish yet I haven't had the need to tell you that. Oh yes darling let's move on please 🙄

I am not going to go around in circles but liberating women from patriarchy does not mean you have to hate men, wish ill of them, insult them and belittle their experiences. It just achieves bitterness and enforces the gap between men and women. We don’t want men to hate women so why would we encourage women to hate men?!

I agree, it's not feminist to be anti men.

hate men, wish ill of them, insult them and belittle their experiences. It just achieves bitterness

Literally no one did that here, quite the opposite. Even if you hated men-it doesn't make a difference. I agree won't go in circles, I found these arguments all easily dispelled by studying some of feminist thoughts-and there are plenty-instead of trying to make up on the spot what feminism is. It's been done.

Didn’t you call JD a creepy old man and that you would never call a woman old, but mens feelings on age don’t matter and it doesn’t affect them 🤣

It's hard to belittle a man who has probably raped quite a few women and humiliated them in various ways, I would doubt it reaches his entitlement. But it seems"feminism"means wasting time defending these men. Good luck with that

Probably? You have absolutely no proof of that. Feminism isn't blindly believing women. I have no idea why anyone would think that is a good thing.

Rape is common. No consent=rape. It also can't be bought. You can whitdraw consent at any time. Plenty of reasons to believe he raped at least one woman.