to be offended by this T-shirt?

[parklife1]

I saw a post on social media today. It was about two gay men becoming fathers of twins via surrogate. There was a picture of the two men in "DAD" T-shirts. The pregnant surrogate stood in between them with a T-shirt saying "NOT THE MOMMA".

I'm not even against surrogacy perse, but I found this picture offensive.

I understood why she was wearing it - she wanted to display that she doesn't want to have a mothering role in the children's life.

I still think it's a slap in the face of women, we go through so much during pregnancy and labour. Giving birth can be life-threatening, I lost 2.1 litres of blood during my first birth and 1 litre of blood during my second birth.

Many women have postpartum depression after birth and the hormones are on a roller-coaster.

My body will be forever marked by giving birth (stretch marks, C-section scar, mum tum).

To me this picture is just offensive, because it sort of portrays women and our bodies as a commodity.

AIBU?

Unnatural.... ffs 🙈

Try reading the thread. 😏

I did read it. Full of vitriol. Standard

Then why are you asking about if it would make a difference if the couple was a man and a woman? It’s been addressed. Surrogacy is wrong regardless of the sex of the couple or their sexuality in my and others opinion.

If she is consenting and no money involved then I have no issue with it.

Tbh , I don't notice these things and if I did, I'm too busy with my own life to think about it.

Don't bother yourself about what other people think. They don't know you, you don't know them....which is just as well as you wouldn't get on. It is what it is.

Wow! You're not really cut out for the future are you.

As a PP said, adoption is about the child and surrogacy is about the parents.

Of course gay people should be able to adopt if they are suitable, in the same way heterosexual people can. But I’m against surrogacy in any form. In part because it reduces women to a womb for rent, and you never see a wealthy surrogate, leaving people ripe for exploitation . I’ve seen first hand how even in the UK where “commercial surrogacy” is supposedly outlawed how expenses can be claimed.

But also about the impact on the child who will even before birth know only their mother, her sound, her body, her smell. There are real concerns about the long term impact of separating a newborn from their birth mother. Why would you do such a thing unless it was a necessity (infertility isn’t a necessity - nobody is entitled to a child).

There’s a reason surrogacy is banned in a great many countries.

BTW I write as a childless, infertile woman whose friend offered to carry a child for me and I said thank you, I love you, but absolutely not.

The world is changing, best get use to it. We are in the 21st century. I don't think surrogacy is a bad thing, and just be honest and open with the child. It won't even be a topic of conversation in 20 or less years time.
People spend too much damn time fretting and moaning about stuff when they should just be enjoying and getting on with their lives. Ridiculous!

‘Fretting’ about women being exploited and children being bought and sold.....worth ‘fretting about I’d say.

21st century, yes, awful that women and babies are used in this way today. Not surprising though, we live in a world where the richer take advantage of poorer, men take advantage of women, many believe if they want something they should go to any lengths to get it and many people refuse to accept that they can’t have something.

I have mixed views on surrogacy. I think commercial surrogacy is wrong, and CAN go wrong in various ways, leaving the surrogate to care for the baby/ies - such as when there is something "wrong" with the baby/ies, or if the parents change their minds, or can't get there for whatever reason. I know there are contracts, but that doesn't stop people breaking them.

I think familial or good-friend surrogacy, done voluntarily, is a different matter. Also the mum will usually still be in the baby's life, as an auntie (familial or not).

I have no issue at all with gay male couples wanting to be parents - but if they have to "buy" a baby to do it, then I feel they should maybe consider adoption or fostering an older child instead - lord knows there are plenty of children in care who are in need of loving parents!

The baby might though. And he or she is the important one.

The world is changing, best get use to it. We are in the 21st century

There are quite a few similar statements that could have been made in centuries past. Progress isn't strictly linear.
Sometimes we realize that we haven't actually got everything right and change course, reverse even.

You obviously missed the threads about the appalling behaviour of the Irish heterosexual couple getting their made to order baby from the Ukraine. To hell with the mother left in war zone.

I think all surrogacy is abhorrent but altruistic surrogacy is particularly abhorrent. Family expectations and pressure make it not a free choice at all. After all, what sort of woman would refuse to carry a baby for her poor, loved infertile sister? If you said no, imagine every family gathering forever more with the resentment and anger. Imagine trying to enjoy your own children in front of your childless sister when you are the big nasty meanie who denied her the same.

If she’s fine with it that’s up to her, her body her decision but you’ve made that completely about you when you don’t even know the woman. Get a grip.

"voluntarily" means "done by volunteer" - which is what I said - so not pressganged into it. I don't agree with people being put under pressure to do it either.

The baby in the dinosaurs called his dad 'not the mumma' in the same way Bart calls homer homer instead of dad.
It was a running joke as Earl was always trying to get baby to call him dad but he wouldn't.

Whoosh... Way to miss the point.

Should have said - Gay and rich so I hired a bitch
Black out the surrogates face - she is just a commodity

In what way?

Viewing surrogacy as a vile practice isn't homophobic.

I can't help but respond to the comments on this thread ...

When someone offers to be a surrogate - most of the time they're not receiving payment for this. They are paid for time they'll miss from work for appointments etc but don't receive an actual payment for doing it. Especially when going through a clinic, all legal documents are drawn up etc, and you need to have Counselling to clarify your reasons for doing it, potential pitfalls etc, what it means for all involved .. basically all adults consenting.

It's interesting because this woman CHOSE to be a surrogate. She consented. She made the decision to help two men become parents.

The amount of people on this thread saying 'it's disgusting', 'they bought a baby', 'how could they take the baby away from their mother', 'what about what the poor mother went through being pregnant, and then giving birth', 'they're selfish, just thinking about their needs and not the poor baby!'

Do you drink dairy milk?
Because cows are put through utter hell, forced into being pregnant so that they produce milk, but have their babies taken from them immediately after birth so they baby doesn't drink their mother, so the milk can be sold to humans instead.. then she's impregnated again and so it continues....

Do you eat lamb? Pigs?
These are also babies taken from their mothers and sold to humans to EAT (not to parent, and look after, and love - but to EAT).. and the mothers are again in horrendous conditions throughout their whole miserable lives.

In this situation - it involved consenting adults. No one was exploited. But I can guarantee there are many of you who will continue to be part of the exploitative process of eating animal flesh and fluids, babies or otherwise because it suits you, tastes nice etc and won't give a single thought to the mothers in that situation!

I don't understand how anyone else finds this offensive. That's how she perceives HER role in HER situation. She's not saying that's how any or all other mothers should feel. It's quite ridiculous to call it a "slap in the face"!

Can’t speak for everyone, but I’m vegan.

However, just because farm animals are treated badly isn’t justification for surrogacy. Surrogacy does exploit women, it puts adults wants before babies. I’d love to see an end to animal exploitation and campaign for it, but I also want surrogacy banned.