Shall I just give up breastfeeding ? Traffic post

[isitmeorzzz]

My baby is almost 3 weeks old.

I've had quite the journey with feeding her. Starting with sore / bleeding nipples and the wrong latch. I have sought lots of advice from midwives and lactation consultant's consultants during this time.

We worked out the latch was too shallow and have worked on positioning etc. The latch is now OK most of the time. I think possibly 80 percent gold latch and 20 percent bad latch. Where she slips a bit etc. or sometimes she won't open her mouth wide enough for me to get a deep latch.

In any case, I feed her for hours and hours and she hardly ever just settles after. Sometimes she does, but rarely. I top her up with formula after most feeds and it seems like she wants more and more formula now.

Occasionally she settles after having fed on the breast, but those times are few and far between. She falls asleep after breastfeeding and as long as I hold her, she'll continue to sleep. As soon as I want to put her down, she starts rooting again.

Anyway I'm getting to the point where she's having 400 or so ml of formula a day and I'm thinking why am I even spending all this time feeding her if she's basically a formula fed baby anyway ? What's the point ? I have a two year old and she's really suffering, as I can't play much with her and I'm constantly sitting feeding the baby. I can't get anything done etc around the house and it's just really hard.

What's the point ? Has anyone been in this situation ? If at least she was exclusively fed, I would carry on. But she's starting to need more and more formula. What is the point? It's really impacting my home life and toddler very badly at this point.

I think at 3 weeks you’re right in the thick of it, baby’s mouth is still tiny, nipples still hurt and they cluster feed all the time.

If you want to carry on it will get better than this and it will get much easier

Fed is best!
Fed by a less stressed out mother, is probably better than a stressed out one.

I would have loved to have breastfed my 2 for longer than I did but my boobs just honestly didn't want to work and do the bloody job they were designed to do so I mixed fed for about 4 months with each , no way could I have just breastfed. Pumping failed for me too.

Sad but shit happens, fed is best!

I have felt very similar to you in the beginning as my baby was just feeding constantly and I got fed up with the comments of surely he can't still be hungry, he shouldn't need fed so often etc. I feel its very much pushed that you should not give any formula at all if you want to breastfeed and it should be one or the other but we gave bottles of formula from day 2 and my baby is still breastfed now at 7 months with only the odd bottle of formula if I am away from the baby for a while (very rare!). We started doing shifts through the night with my husband giving a couple of bottles early morning so I could get a stretch of sleep each night. He would also sometimes have a bottle during the day if I needed a rest. My baby would only go about 20 minutes between feeds at times! I did try to have him latch on as often as I could to build supply because of giving the bottles. I remember putting a post on here at 10 weeks because he was still feeding constantly but things definitely got easier after that. We also used a dummy from early on to help settle him after a feed and I found going out with the pram helped him go a little while til the next feed and also I have a 3 year old so we needed to get out. It is very hard to juggle the feeding with looking after a toddler. If i was you I would continue giving formula when you feel you need a break from bf but remember you can continue to do both xx

I am going to give you my experience in case any of it resonates. But it is just that, others will have different but just as valid experiences.

Dd1 was FF. She had a medical condition that meant that was the only option from birth. The sleep deprivation was horrific, truly awful as I was on my own allot while DH worked.

Dd2 didn't have the medical condition. I wanted to BF so I could co sleep and avoid the sleep deprivation that left me incapacitated with migraines and actually look after DD1. Honestly, it was a totally selfish decision on my part and nothing to do with the baby

She was attached to me basically 24/7 - either sleeping/feeding in bed whilst I slept or in a sling feeding. She also shot up the percentiles. The HV face when she came back for the 6 week check to this huge baby and I told her she was ebf was quite funny! I got the sleep I needed. DD1 was safe and TV wasn't all day(although a lot - be kind to yourself)

If you want to do this I suggest a sling library (Rosie Knowles and Sheffield sling library or wrap you in love are online resources) and reading about safe cosleeping. www.basisonline.org.uk

I would suggest deciding what your limits are and sticking to them though. Honestly I am not sure I would make the same decision again. It made the first 6 months easier and then later on much harder as I ended up with a very dependent baby/toddler.

You say you’ve had a few people check for tongue tie, but who are those people?

I have breastfed both my children and the last 8 years of my career have focused on supporting breastfeeding mothers during the first 2-3 weeks and I don’t think wanting to feed for 5 hours, and still not being settled, is normal.

Your milk supply would have undoubtedly have been affected by frequent top-ups, and as another poster said, a breast pump is not as effective as a baby when it comes to increasing your supply. However, that can only be said when a baby is able to feed effectively and from some of what you are saying, that may need to be looked into further?

How many top-ups does she have in a 24 hour period and what volume does she take?

And like I said, I don’t know who’ve you had check for tongue tie but if you haven’t been seen by a qualified tongue tie practitioner then I strongly suggest getting their opinion.

Op you sound like you are really fed up. Is it worth the stress it's causing you? You don't need permission to switch to formula and you don't need to feel guilty at all. You have tried to bf, your baby has already had colostrum and lots of your milk. You need to make the best choice for you and your family. Fed really is best and continuing with bf when it's making you stressed and unhappy is totally counter productive.

In ten years time will anyone know or care how your baby was fed? No. But you will look back and remember this special time being full of stress.

I know how you feel, I was in the same boat and I tried and failed to bf, I beat myself up over it and felt really disappointed. That lasted for a few days and then I just felt immense relief at having made a decision and removing that pressure. It doesn't come easily to everyone and your health and happiness is most important. Good luck whatever you decide but be kind to yourself.

The lactation consultant and lactation midwife specialist lady, health visitor also checked for tongue tie.

Do you think that's OK? Or should I try someone else ?

She has between 4-6 top ups a day. Always after feeding for at least an hour. Usually she'll feed on and off for 3-4 hours before I'll give her a top up. At night sometimes I jus give her formula as I'm too tired. I'll usually try to pump if I can't feed her for whatever reason.

The lactation consultant and lactation midwife specialist lady, health visitor also checked for tongue tie.

There is no guarantee any of these people are actually qualified to assess tongue function and diagnose tongue ties. Some ties are not visible to the untrained eye and they are usually suspected only by poor /abnormal feeding behaviours (like the ones you are having) and that suspicion should then be confirmed and treated by a tongue tie practitioner.

Have a look at the website I’ve attached and start from there. Use that and Google to determine whether those who have looked at your baby’s tongue are actually qualified to do so, and if not it may be worth having her tongue function formally assessed.

If your baby is feeding for 5hrs straight and still crying for food then obviously its not getting enough milk.
So either figure out whwre the problem lies or just continue with the bottle. .

Hi OP,
Yes they would feed like that at night as well as during the day. It was often hardest in the evening as all of them cluster fed- most ebf babies do.

If you watch just below your babies ear when they're feeding you can see each time they swallow so you'll know if they're getting milk.

Also re drinking the formula: babies have a "swallow reflex"- if there's fluid in their mouth they swallow it, it protects against inhaling milk. Like any reflex they can't not do it. So when DC drinks the formula after a big feed it's not necessarily that they want the milk- the bottle dribbles milk into their mouth and the reflex makes them swallow it. It probably explains the puking after as they can be over-full.

When bf you should notice babies sucks slowing down after a couple of minutes. The initial quick sucks tell your boob to release and make more milk, the slow sucks are when that's established. With young babies they might do this on repeat during a single feed (that can go on for hours).

Your baby is crying because she is hungry, and i am guessing that is because she is not getting enough milk from your breasts.

You have a two year old who is being frankly neglected and a baby who is hungry. I would recommend you formula feed, your baby will be more content and you can dedicate more time to your eldest child.

It is your choice. Fed is best.

Also re drinking the formula: babies have a "swallow reflex"- if there's fluid in their mouth they swallow it, it protects against inhaling milk. Like any reflex they can't not do it. So when DC drinks the formula after a big feed it's not necessarily that they want the milk- the bottle dribbles milk into their mouth and the reflex makes them swallow it. It probably explains the puking after as they can be over-full.

If you aren’t already OP, give her bottles using the Paced Feeding Technique - there are lots of good videos on YouTube about how to do it.

It allows the baby full control over the flow of the milk and the volume they take, so the fed is Baby Led as opposed to Parent Led. Plus, it is generally a much safer way to bottle feed as it reduces the chance of choking and over eating (for want of a better word).

Please ignore this poster. Babies feed for much more than hunger. If she's having wet nappies and gaining weight she isn't hungry.

@Reallyreallyborednow

how do they know it’s not normal? What are they basing that on? i got told that a lot. “Feeding again”, they shouldn’t feeding that much, what do you mean they’re still feeding at night, etc. then the inevitable how do you know they’re getting enough, maybe your milk isn’t rich enough or doesn’t agree with them… however none of these people had breastfed themselves. Their views were purely based on their every 4 hours strict routine formula fed babies. i found even HCP generally have no experience with bf and don’t know what is normal. Bf rates are so low in this country it’s fairly unusual to bf past 6 weeks. Which is why much of the “advice” is pretty crap and involves pumping and topping up, rather than actually trying to breastfeed.

I agree with everything here. Breastfeeding is incredibly hard because of how time consuming it is. Babies are on all the time, not because they are hungry, but because they are establishing your supply for the next day and the next and the next when they will be hungrier and hungrier.

Their stomachs are tiny. They feed little and often and there are days where all you do is pass them from one boob to the next endlessly. They're not always actively feeding m, they're telling your breasts "I'm still here and still need this, keep up the supply".

I have also had so many ignorant comments in the early days asking if my milk isn't good enough because he's "feeding again" and "still hungry"

OP, your husband saying baby needs formula if they're still feeding after a few hours just shows he knows Jack Shit about breastfeeding. They're probably bringing the formula back up because the flow comes out too easily and they've over-filled their belly before they know what's hit them. Breastfeeding is responsive. Sometimes baby will be feeding, sometimes they'll just be stimulating supply, sometimes they're seeking comfort. But at every step of the way they are communicating with your body to provide what they need.

Gaining weight? No other issues? Plenty of wet and dirty nappies? Baby is fine to continue breastfeeding. That's not the same as saying that it's not for you and you want to switch to formula. That is also fine. Do what works best for you and baby. Especially as you have a toddler in tow. Whatever you decide, you are doing a fantastic job with both your children.

@safetyfreak

Your baby is crying because she is hungry, and i am guessing that is because she is not getting enough milk from your breasts. You have a two year old who is being frankly neglected and a baby who is hungry. I would recommend you formula feed, your baby will be more content and you can dedicate more time to your eldest child. It is your choice. Fed is best.

Utter madness and ignorance.

OP switch to formula if you want because it is right for you and your family. But do not switch because of comments like this.

Once you’ve introduced formula, it’s a downwards spiral tbh. It takes work to drop that as a) baby will be used to how quick and easy a bottle is and the formula will increase their appetite overall. A baby’s stomach is the size of a walnut so they don’t actually need a lot of milk. Once it starts getting ‘stretched’ with formula, their appetite changes. B) your supply would likely have dropped.
You are able to come back from formula to exclusively bf with a little perseverance but is that really what you want to do? If your mental health and overall health is being impacted and your body is still recovering from pregnancy and birth, you have to really either commit to it or give up the guilt and switch to formula. There’s no right or wrong and both are perfectly acceptable. Formula feeding is easier for most people, despite cleaning bottles and sterilisation etc, which you’re already doing anyway, so just do it.

I am currently feeding my 2.5yr old. I’ve hated pretty much 90% of the breastfeeding experience. She’s never taken a bottle and it’s relentless and exhausting. I genuinely wish I just bottle fed her from the beginning but I was too lazy. You do you. And congratulations :-)

Hi op. I can feel how exhausted and stressed you are❤️ firstly I want to reassure you it WILL
get better I remember feeling similar when mine were babies and I was round the clock feeding it is bloody hard but babies do feed a lot in the first few weeks and months I also got similar comments" are you feeding again!?" Secondly if it isn't working for you there is no shame in switching to formula. You have to do what is best for you and baby and sometimes that's switching to bottles and that's ok. Its tricky with bf cos you never know just how much they are getting but it sounds like she is getting plenty by what you've said I second trying a dummy before you offer top up could be she's not really hungry and just needing the comfort. Good luck op and remember what ever you decide to do is grand don't beat yourself up about it you sound like your doing amazing and your baby Is very lucky to have such a caring mum
:) All the best x

I haven't read the full thread (apologies!) but if you do want to continue my friend swore by fenugreek to boost supply. I used it a little in the beginning as DS was struggling to put on weight and, it might just have been a placebo or whatever but, I did seem to get more out over the same time when I expressed.

I was expressing and bottle feeding over night for the first few weeks so that I knew he was getting enough overnight. It built up his energy which helped when he was actually feeding as he had been falling asleep quite a bit. If you are able to express, see what you get out as it will give you some idea of supply (although i know some people just can't e press despite baby feeding fine) and if you get some, give that as a replacement for some of your formula feeds to cut it down

Good luck in whatever you decide OP

Haven't read the full thread but if you find expressing relatively ok then you could bottle feed with expressed milk and see if that helps. I liked routine and feeds at regular intervals rather than just constantly having babies latched on, some are more comfortable walking around like that all day! Stress can stop your let down reflex so if you are stressed by bf constantly it's maybe a vicious cycle and baby is sucking for comfort but not getting too much milk. I'm sure you've done all the research on fore milk / hind milk and all that jazz. Whatever you decide please don't feel guilty - so much pressure to do XYZ - mine eventually all had a mixture of breast milk and formula for various reasons and and they are all thriving now.

I've given it up today. I had some terrible news today. My dad had a terrible accident. He is going to be OK. But we are looking at life changing injuries.

So that's it for me. Baby isn't even actually latching today, since I found out. I've been crying the whole day. It's just impossible to continue under these circumstances.

I don't think expressing is going to work for me either. I never get more than 30 ml for a pumping session of 20
Minutes.

Does anyone have any advice on how to exclusively pump ? I tried hard for my first baby, but I never pumped enough milk. But my first baby also basically never wanted to stay on the breast at all. If anyone has any pumping exclusively advice, that would be helpful.

Thanks everyone.

I EP'd for six weeks and then partially pumped for another six as DD had latch issues from birth. She did eventually latch on and breastfed till she was one, but I had to do a lot of research on EP for myself as the HVs etc weren't very knowledgeable on it.

It's bloody hard work and not sure I would do it again, but you need to be pumping at least 8-10 times a day and including overnight, as that's when milk supply is at its highest.

Breast compressions while pumping can help with flow. A good quality double pump and pumping bra (or holes cut into an old sports bra) are good investments, as it means you can pump handsfree and do both breasts at once.

There are some good EP FB groups, but I will say that it can be gruelling and you need to be dedicated to it to want to persevere. It's tough to wake up in the night even if baby is asleep to pump for 30 mins. I don't want to put you off, because I did find it worth it in the end and rewarding in its own way, but it's a time investment and especially if you are at the stage where your supply might be low or have dropped, increasing it can be hard work. If you Google 'power pumping', there are some ideas for helping to kickstart supply again.

Make sure you are plenty hydrated and eating well. Fenugreek can help some people with milk supply (but it makes you smell of maple syrup!).

And I'm so sorry to hear about your dad. I hope he recovers as well and quickly as possible

I think pumping is going to be a big ask OP when you’re so tired and have a toddler as well. I expressed for around 6 hrs a day and gave up after a few months.
I hope your Dad is getting is looked after as well as possible and baby starts to settle more.

My daughter is 10 days old. I totally get what you mean about the pain of a bad latch. She cluster feeds about 8 hours of a night (my elder daughter did the same so it's not been a massive shock though the tiredness is unreal). It's hard but in my experience it does get easier.
Ultimately, it's what suits you and your family, only you know the answer to that. It's really not as easy as "drop the formula" when you know your LO is getting satisfaction and allowing you a few moments of sanity, breast feeding is a huge commitment of time for sure. Why don't you strike a balance of combi feeding IF you want to continue BF?

Wishing you all the best, it isn't an easy journey we are on. X

I was going to post pretty much what @Hugasauras has just said. For me it was frequent expressing and particularly at night that kept up and increased my supply.

If you're going to be dealing with your DDad's health and recovery as well then maybe trying to get to a position where you can express a full supply might be a big ask. It's ok to just express as much as you feel able and use whatever you get to supplement alongside formula feeds.