To not understand why women box?

[Choufleurfromage]

Not a fan of boxing as a 'sport' in general and given the hysteria over football/rugby tacking and head injuries, am surprised such a violent contact sport is still allowed.
Also, at the risk of being oxymoronic, I really do think women shouldn't be banned from doing stuff, but boxing is just so uncouth, ugly and violent, I cannot understand why women would want to do it; ok, it offers opportunities for disadvantaged youngsters (plenty of evidence of this), it creates discipline and focus, but it is still 2 people battering each other for no reason...
I am sure iabu, and am not suggesting women only pursue 'dainty' sports or activities, but boxing?

Thank you so much. Message received

i do think it is important not to be over confident, as @Tamzo85 says.
@Andromachehadabadday
sometimes strong swimmers can get into trouble because they over estimate their capability so get into more dangerous situations (eg go farther out to sea than they would otherwise do if they were not so confident).

However the ideal is to have both - good skills plus caution (as @Andromachehadabadday and others who are experts have mentioned).

I say this to my sons too - if someone is attacking you, run away. Boys are statistically more likely to be involved in and die in violent (though not sexual) incidents. Even if the other person looks smaller - they may well have a knife, so best bet is to get to safety.

@Andromachehadabadday

You were the one saying you could take a good portion of men down not me. That isn’t just giving yourself a few more seconds to get away, it’s implying you think you could do some kind of judo or whatever on men and effectively throw them down if you were suddenly attacked. You (or another poster) have also said you have been in full contact sparring with men which I question, because there is little chance you would be fighting other men at your club in a serious boxing bout were knockouts can happen. Anything less is not full contact.

If you want to believe your training may help you get away of attacked then ok, you can, but it’s foolish to think your going to teach the men who might attack you that they’ve bitnof more than they can chew by “taking them down” - and this is the type of thinking which is dangerous for women. I get the sense training in a safe environment and fantasy movies may have given a false sense of capability which is dangerous to some.

Tamzo, you come across as paternalistic and condescending. Women do not have to convince you of their prowess or otherwise. We spend a whole hell of a lot of our life watching for the dangers, fearing the dangers, mentally mapping out what we will do if one of the minnows turns into a shark.

We do the best we can with what we have. We have to, because if there's one thing we do know, it's that we cannot depend on a man being a good guy, or a good guy being around when we need one.

I know one woman who trained the HK riot police in aikido. She was tiny. I cannot remember what Dan she was. But if you had the misfortune to pick her for a target, you'd better either be either well covered for health insurance, or one hell of a fighter. And yes, she full contact sparred with men.

Sorry, Tokyo riot police.

I'm still unsure how false confidence means you're more likely to be attacked. And what rough places these falsely confident women frequent.

I agree. However I used the situation of being dumped in open water as that’s very different to choosing to swim in open water. It’s the nearest to being attacked. Both done without your choice. When being dumped, in open water. It’s always better to have some or lots of experience rather than non.

I agree, someone who can swim may swim further out etc. But they rarely go seek our dangerous swimming places when they are alone. Extreme swimmers have a team of people with them for dangerous areas and situations because their training and knowledge makes them know that’s you don’t do these things alone. They take extra precautions. People with some knowledge can put themselves at big risk, so a swimmer with some experience, people with a lot of knowledge and training rarely do.

There's not one person in the world, male or female, that cannot get their arse handed to them on a plate by somebody. That's why it's a good idea, be you male or female, to avoid situations where this just might happen. Because sometimes, that might be the woman you thought was easy prey. Just because all you saw was 'woman'.

Yea, I am confident I could take a good portion of men down. Unfortunately, being a woman I have had chance to test the theory. In real life. Of course I assume you believe that I just happen to have come across the few men (in your opinion) that I was lucky enough to be able to handle.

I didn’t talk about full contact sparring. So I have nothing to reply to there. And I don’t do judo. You seem to be very over confident that many men know how to fight. And that the ones who target women panic when they realise the women won’t lay down and take it.

I think I can take some men down, because I have. In real life situations. However, as I have said all the way along being able to get away is the priority. And if I can’t get away, you can bet I won’t go down without a fight. No one gets to assault me and me accept it.

Again, if you are attacked, it’s better to have some experience and knowledge. Better to have alot. Having non does not protect you.

and no, no women I know go out specifically looking for fights. Or getting themselves in Dangerous situations. No one has suggested anyone do that.

You seem really put out that some women, won’t just accept whatever men decide to inflict on women and seem convinced most of us only have experience within a dojo.

and yet, we don’t. But you keep ignoring that part because it doesn’t fit your theory. Simple fact is that you have no experience or being a woman or being extensively trained to fight and self defend. So I would suggest your theories are simply just made up musings in your own head, that don’t translate into any of our real lives.

You're not looking out for women though, you're misunderstanding the typical situation they are likely to have to deal with.

I was grabbed by a flasher on my way home from a nightclub while a university student. He tried to pull me down a deserted alleyway, I resisted and basically gave him a good kicking until he let go and gave up. He clearly wasn't a trained fighter and he was less aggressive than me. I think his legs might have been in a pretty poor state in terms of bruising. I don't know if I caused any fractures, I was aiming for the centre front of his lower leg because in my desire to nullify him, my brain told me that was the weakest area while being the easiest to attack. I was wearing a typical stupid pair of low platform shoes but they constituted a very heavy solid object to be able to kick someone with while protecting my own feet. I'm also really well balanced and very muscular and aerobically fit. I kept my head down and tucked in and my elbows out.

Perhaps a more serious attacker would have had more success. But thats what I had to deal with.

However, I didn't report it to the police until nearly 20 hours later because I had to get up early the next morning to do a triathlon. I raced particularly well. I contacted the police once I got back from the race and had had my dinner. I think the police were a bit shocked.

I was unhurt.

Why would you let yourself be within striking range of a full blow punch?

I'm not trained in fighting or self defence.

@AchatAVendre, that's exactly what I meant by women do their best with what they've got. And their best can be surprisingly effective, given the stakes we may well be fighting for.

Sadly, far too often, it's not good enough. But standing around yelling 'hayelp, won't nobody save little ol' me' is going to be even less effective!

Women do seem more punchy now, but I wonder if that's because we're (all, actually, male and female) so much more predisposed to anger as a go to emotion, and more likely to act on it? And from what I've observed, women tend to go other women, rather than men. And usually drunk out their gourd on booze and God knows what else.

Yes, women can be really vicious. A lot of men who think they can be aggressive towards women, will back down with threats if you even use squared up body language back to them. Of course there will always be skilled fighters but you have to assess each situation individually.

Personally, I'd rather take a small risk than live my life in fear. When push came to shove (literally), I didn't panic but simply did what I needed to do not to be trapped. I suspect my attacker got really tired aerobically and couldn't cope with someone putting up strong resistance.

Again, faced with an aggressive fighter, I'd make sure to stay out of punching range and far enough away to step out of the way if he made a lunge.

this is the type of thinking which is dangerous for women. I get the sense training in a safe environment and fantasy movies may have given a false sense of capability which is dangerous to some.

How many female martial artists have you actually met, @Tamzo85 ?
Because I have known dozens, & not a single one of them suffered from over-confidence. Quite the reverse. We all knew what men were capable of, because we'd directly experienced it - even a pulled punch can put someone on the floor.

The only 'overconfident' types I encountered in martial arts were mainly teenage boys. They soon wised up. Nobody is invincible.
The few overconfident men I met were all from a karate school which was heavily focused on competitions.
So I swapped that for a specific kung fu style, which majored on self-defence for women. Not one of us were looking to 'best' a man in the somewhat fevered way you have invented imagined. Every one of us was training herself to get that split-second advantage available from trouble-spotting, quicker reflexes, trained-in knee-jerk responses, hardened sensibilities, & the simple shock (to him) of saying a hard NO to a man's aggression.

I suspect it is giving you comfort to hold on to the bizarre double-think that a woman trained in self-defence will be less likely to be able to defend herself than a woman who hasn't. It possibly helps you feel you are as safe as women who've had the temerity to get all hot & uncouth in a dojo. Sad truth is - none of us are safe. But some of us are better equipped to avoid unsafe situations, & to react in ways that will preserve us, because we have trained with experts for years for just that possibility.

Oh! & had fun, got fit, got proud, made excellent women & gent friends into the bargain. You & OP should try it, Tamzo. Or even just a short ladies self-defence course. You'd be amazed at the difference it makes to your perceptions, poise, & personal agency.

Because its good cardio, my pt is obsessed with it and I like getting to throw a punch at him after he tortures me for an hour.

aw come on, we all know MNers are enormously sexist.
Every single issue on MN is turned into a gender-issue "women are so neglected & victimised" theme.
I am too lazy to find the posts on this thread that blame boxing women on the Patriarchy, as though women could never make bad decisions all by their wee selves. Instead someone must insist that women absorbed bad values from some male bad guys: always the fault of someone with a penis.

I don't understand motor racing or stilettos.
But there you are.
Some people love that stuff.
Aren't human beings curious.

I can't get past a couple of posters on here saying that an over-confident strong swimmer, is more likely to drown in open water than a non-swimmer.

What level of batshittey and delusion is this? I suppose you think someone who has never learned to drive/never been behind the wheel of a car, is less likely to crash it/veer off the road, than an over confident driver?

Utterly bonkers.

Dont like contact boxing for anyone. Never understood why people watch fighting but up to them. I would however love to learn non contact boxing, like pads etc. Good for strength and stress busting.

If you don't like boxing, don't watch it, don't do it. Respect the fact that others have differing preferences. This doesn't mean that women who box are about to go out and glass a six foot something martial arts expert because they're boxing, and now thing they're well 'ard, and want to pick a fight.

Women are all too well aware how vulnerable they are. All the bloody time. But how tacky of them to do boxing, increasing their fitness, their dexterity, their mental acuity, and possibly feeling a little bit more able to cope if they are attacked. Of course, that's bugger all use against a copper with cuffs and a warrant card. . .

Its because they know nothing about swimming and think that someone who can do a length of front crawl is a "strong swimmer". I don't think they're talking about someone who can swim 1500m in 22 minutes or less. They don't realise that a well trained swimmer is generally aware of the dangers of open water swimming and particularly in entry and exit points, observing for rip tides and checking that the tide is going in or out first.

Why do people skydive? I mean you are voluntarily jumping from a plane? Why? I just don't get it. You could literally die, splat! What if the parachute doesn't open? It's happened. What if you have a heart attack?! Just why? It's also undignified, they look like utter planks with their mouths all flappy in the sky, where they have NO BUSINESS being in the first place mind you!

Ceridwenn
I guess for me too, when I'm jogging through the woods of an evening, I want to know I at least stand a bit more of a chance (compared to the 20 something me), if someone should try to grab me. It's why my daughter also trains with me. I don't want to put my trust in men to short out their violence. It wont happen.“

Reasonable people abhor domestic violence.

why is it ok, then, for people of either sex to get into a ring and paste their opponent for the titillation of the paying crowd?

it’s obscene.