To not understand why women box?

[Choufleurfromage]

Not a fan of boxing as a 'sport' in general and given the hysteria over football/rugby tacking and head injuries, am surprised such a violent contact sport is still allowed.
Also, at the risk of being oxymoronic, I really do think women shouldn't be banned from doing stuff, but boxing is just so uncouth, ugly and violent, I cannot understand why women would want to do it; ok, it offers opportunities for disadvantaged youngsters (plenty of evidence of this), it creates discipline and focus, but it is still 2 people battering each other for no reason...
I am sure iabu, and am not suggesting women only pursue 'dainty' sports or activities, but boxing?

No I stand a much greater chance of being able to get myself out of a situation. You seem to be confused.

no my dp would not big me up, just make me feel better. He is very invested in me being able to protect myself and never bugs me up where he feels I could improve. Because that would be a disservice to me. His experience working on the doors has shown him how vulnerable women can be to men and how, so many, men treat women and is a big advocate of women being as prepared as they can.

I am confident I can take a good proportion of men down. Because, unfortunately, I have done in real life situations
There is never a situation where a woman untrained and not use to fighting will come off better than a woman who is when attacked by a man. I know which of those women I would like to be.

You have no knowledge of the women you are posting, condescendingly too, their lives, experience or how hard they train. Yet believe you can, know far more about it than them. You don’t. You think you do. But have no experience of being trained or applying it to real life as woman in a violent situation.

no one has said they could beat every man ever. Simply that being trainees makes their chances of getting out ok, are far higher than if they aren’t.

I box with pads in a general fitness class setting. My upper body is naturally weak and it's healthy and empowering to train my upper body.

On the self defence side, as a runner, it's good that it has the potential to get me out of an awkward situation. The reality is that as a small, average for age woman, most male runners can easily out run me. But if I'm in a sticky situation, my assailant might not be a runner, or a boxer. The fitter, faster, stronger more agile I am, the more tools I have to potentially help myself. I might freeze. That's also an instictive survival strategy.
When I once woke up and found myself being assaulted by a wandering hand ignoring my undergarments, my reaction was a quick pause to process the situation, then kick him hard in the face. Of course he could have overpowered me, but the surprise of the blow made him back off. There were other people in the room and a fight was not on his agenda.

@CoffeeWithCheese made a great point about ballet. Many feminine sports like dance and gymnastics have toxic cultures.

Let females and indeed males do any sport that they have made informed consent to participate in.

As to boxing and male aggression, I've worked in schools in rough areas that have introduced boxing as an accessible sport (cheap, indoors, low space requirement) and it's great at safely venting emotions and teenage angst. Far better than the attractions of gang culture rife in the area.

Boxing can be done without head blows, and many other sports including football have a high record of head injury and general injury.

@Tamzo85
This is my point. You see dodging and weaving, you don't see the footwork and positioning that keeps a person out of range of an opponent's power until they come in, throw a combo, then dodge and weave to deal with a responsive flurry from another trained opponent.
Untrained people do not throw co-ordinated punches in response to getting hit in the face.

Standing in front of someone and having a direct contest of strength is not grappling. If that is what it was, you would be better off spending your time squatting and deadlifting, rather than on the mats but that is not the case.

Similar to striking arts, it's about impairing your opponent's ability to employ their strength by using angles to exploit weaker planes of movement. When you watch judo or wrestling in the Olympics and you see two grapplers standing in front of eachother and handfighting, it's not because that is the art, it's because trained people know how quickly things go badly if you let your opponent take an angle and get your arms out of their way. They spend a lot of effort on not letting this happen.

Novices generally don't. Most people who try grappling have an early experience of being put on their back by someone smaller than them and having the realisation that they can't get up, regardless of how much strength they try to employ. The vast majority of people decide it's not for them and some people commit to learning to do that to other people

When you say you’ve sparred “full contact” with men without them pulling punches - are you talking about an actual bout where they are actually trying to knock you out? Doubt it - getting punched kind of hard but not without care as to whether you love or die are two different things.
Yes. I was an accomplished sparrer & ring fighter @Tamzo85
Although I don't think you understand what 'full contact' means.
Do you actually understand that neither male or female martial artists are trying to kill each other? So the "live or die" hyperbole is ... unnecessary.
Your doubt in a woman's competence is only highlighting your ignorance.

I think you may have been punched in training sparring but likely not by men who are really trying to knock you out for the count. So no, I don’t think you can tell the difference. Especially with gloves off. I think likely getting hit kind of hard has made you feel good and ready and that you could really take a full on punch from a man swarming you.
Did you not read my previous post to you?
I know what full body punches feel like. I know what it feels like to be overpowered, because it has happened to me. In real life, not the dojo. I was a damn sight better equipped to come out with less damage AFTER I'd trained than before.
I also can quote you reams of statistics on physiological differences between men & women's bodies, & - unlike someone who's never experienced it - know how to take a body blow or even better roll with a punch where possible. A punch most people wouldn't even see coming - because that takes years of training.

So I think I’m actually in the better spot because I haven’t got any illusions about my own capabilities.
Illogical, captain.
Because you think you'd go down at the first punch - you reckon you are in the safer situation?

Whereas a woman who knows her own strength, can spot conflict brewing before most people even recognise a situation boiling up, has decades of practice in ducking/dodging blows, is strong enough to land a couple of disabling stunners, & fast & fit enough to run & keep running ... is less capable than YOU? 😂
OK ... this illogic obviously makes you feel safer, so you do you ...

Here is your first post which clearly says you can't understand why WOMEN would want to box, then when people asked why you have such a problem with women boxing you get nippy and aggressive. Maybe you should try boxing as an outlet for your anger, but I think you might be on the wind up OP.

but boxing is just so uncouth, ugly and violent, I cannot understand why women would want to do it

Used to quite enjoy a fight at school. Obviously in self defence I mean, but its true realism. I mean obviously its illegal, so boxing is a way for those women who enjoy a bit of a scrap. Its also a serious sporting discipline with stringent safety rules and something that can take you to the Olympics, keep you fit or help you feel more confident about your ability to defend yourself from attack.

I'm not bothered about some people thinking I'm uncoth or ugly and I'm not violent (unless in self defence), but also, my reproductive organs are inside my body, not dangling around the outside and so less likely to be damaged during a breach in the rules than a man's. Therefore, on safety grounds, its men's boxing that should be the primary focus of any ban and not women's.

I'm off to do some uncouth sports on my day off now too - they will involve getting sweaty and getting my hair in a mess. Ooooh madam!

Precisely. My point was I questioned /do not understand why women want to box, i don't have a problem with them boxing per se, which is why i have responded to those who suggest I have.
Some people have posted their actual reasson why they box, which have given me an undrstanding why they do. They have been helpful, the rude replies and accusations have not.

They have been helpful, the rude replies and accusations have not.

To be fair, you were pretty abrasive & rude in your updates OP.
But that aside - are you going to have a go at boxing, kung fu, judo etc now - to understand the attraction?

@Tamzo85

they should be afraid

They should be afraid of what?

You seem to be suggesting that being scared will make women less likely to suffer from violence but that doesn't make sense.

Most men are able to physically overpower most women by virtue of being stronger. The woman's fear (or lack of it) makes no difference to the likelihood of her being seriously hurt. Men hurt and abuse women all the time, strong women, weak women, ordinary women. They don't pick on women who look like they like boxing.

No one is suggesting that taking up boxing means women will directly challenge a man to a fight, either in or out of a boxing ring. I have never boxed but I'm pretty sure that boxing partners are usually selected to be well matched for size etc. And no woman who is sane would pick a fight on the street with a big bloke for the sake of it.

Having more physical confidence, good spatial awareness, speed and all these things is never going to make you more aggressive or more likely to instigate violence. But it may give you an edge if you are on the receiving end of violence.

@Andromachehadabadday

Unless you walk around the streets picking fights with random men there is now way you can be confident you could take a good proportion of men down. You will persist in believing this so it’s pointless to talk further but to me that reads like false confidence instilled by fighting training (even training really hard) exactly as I’ve said.

@ToletPoster

Its obvious we won’t agree but I think it’s delusion borne of training that makes you think you will be able to weave and land blows and know distance against some strongish agressive lunatic man as though your in a Bruce Lee film. This is the kind of thing I would hate to see younger women I care about believing because I’m afraid they may be more likely to go to rougher places because of it and then be hurt.

The young women you are handwringing about are probably far LESS likely to go to rougher places, @Tamzo85

Because they are not ignorant about violence, & its causes.

Have not rtft but in response to OP. I recently took up kickboxing at a womens class. It has done absolute wonders for my physical and social confidence and my fitness. I have literally never felt better. I am learning a skill, challenging myself, making new friends. I in no way feel I am more able to defend myself and would not be stupid enough to think so, but as @KettrickenSmiled says you do learn a little bit about basic defence, angles etc which MAY help a little were you in such a situation. In fact it has highlighted to me how most women NEVER learn about aspects of the sport such as stance and moving to distance, which is perhaps more commonly taught in “male” sports. Even just putting on gloves felt completely alien to me at first, but I feeI have tapped into a whole new part of myself which women are generally discouraged from exploring and I don’t give two hoots if you think I’m uncouth.

It's also hilarious that you consider PP who know 100% more about the subject than you do being dismissed as "delusional" while you parade your ignorance as if it constitutes a counter-argument.

Women who train in martial arts no more expect to be Bruce Lee than women who take driving lessons expect to be Lewis Hamilton.
But by your logic - you reckon that women who have not learned to drive are going to be safer behind a wheel than women who have many years of driving experience.
It makes no sense at all!

@Tamzo85
I'm under no illusions. Bruce Lee couldn't fight like someone in a Bruce Lee film.

You're right that this conversation is pointless though.
You've had a whole thread of people with actual knowledge and experience of this topic trying to enlighten you and you're happy to presume that your layman shower-thoughts supercede all of that. There's no helping that type of person.

This is true.

all the women I know purposely seek out ‘rough places’ to show off our fighting skills.

That’s what our life is about. Seeking dark alleys ways with dodgy blokes so we can pretend we in street fighter. 🙄

Women who get attacked by men in rough areas, are attacked because the men doing the attacking are cunts. Not because the women are trawling the streets to test out their fighting skill.

it’s quite clear you don’t actually know any women who are trained above a couple of free defence courses.

Yet seem to believe you have more experience that actual women and even women who have been through it and experiences with it.

Quite, @buddy79

Some PP are insisting on presenting this Straw Man argument of "but - but - you couldn't take a man down in an aggressive encounter" - which nobody here has claimed.
What we are claiming is sharper instincts, quicker learned responses, & increased ability to fend off/opportunity spot a chance at a disabling blow/reduced panic response/enhanced ability to run from trouble.

I'll take that increased chance of escape over 'dainty' any day.

Not following this thought completely. If you are attacked, you are attacked? Having a 'false confidence' doesn't make this more or less likely? What dangerous situations are women with 'false confidence' going to put themselves in?

PMSL. You're serious aren't ya @Choufleurfromage ??? Thanks for the laff!

Except it’s only false in your opinion. Which is based on less than nothing.

A trained woman, has better chance than an untrained woman. There’s no way of looking at this, where that isn’t true.

Dump two women into open water. The one that has been trained to swim and swims regularly and has been involved in open water swimming, has a better chance of survival than a woman who can’t swim at all.

The swimmer isn’t more likely to drown, because they know what they are doing. It’s a ridiculous statement. And one, I feel, is designed to try and remind women that they are always at the mercy of men, shouldn’t try and be able to protect themselves and accept mens violence and simply hope for the best. Or maybe even, it’s upsetting to the male ego to realise not all women need a man to protect them and can (and do) protect themselves and that sometimes men can bite off more than they can chew.

Yeah this. ^^ WTF did you expect @Choufleurfromage people to say yes yes yes you're right OP. Aren't you so clever and socially aware and amazing??? Oooh good for you. Woo hoo. Do you actually know where you have posted? And have you ever had anyone disagree with you before? Because you are not handling people disagreeing with you very well...

FWIW, I think YABU, and utterly ridiculous.

@Andromachehadabadday 100% agree with your post.

Stop being silly @Andromachehadabadday -

Dump two women into open water. The one that has been trained to swim and swims regularly and has been involved in open water swimming, has a better chance of survival than a woman who can’t swim at all.

After all @Tamzo85 's excellent instruction, have you still not cottoned on yet?

The non-swimmer will have a much better chance of survival, because she has no "false confidence" about her ability to swim.
Whereas the swimmer will automatically assume that she is the secret love-child of Rebecca Adlington & Emily Currie, & will sink like a stone for her delusions. Deservedly - the ugly, uncouth bitch!

Stop being silly @Andromachehadabadday -

Dump two women into open water. The one that has been trained to swim and swims regularly and has been involved in open water swimming, has a better chance of survival than a woman who can’t swim at all.

After all @Tamzo85 's excellent instruction, have you still not cottoned on yet?

The non-swimmer will have a much better chance of survival, because she has no "false confidence" about her ability to swim.
Whereas the swimmer will automatically assume that she is the secret love-child of Rebecca Adlington & Emily Currie, & will sink like a stone for her delusions. Deservedly - the ugly, uncouth bitch!

Deservedly - the ugly, uncouth bitch!

😂😂😂