To ask dog owners to be extra vigilant around younger children?

[ponderingthisthing]

At the weekend, we were out in the meadows and having our family photos taken by a professional photographer.

A dog came near us and started jumping on the DC, who are 2 and 4. DH tried to fend it off until the owner came and dragged the dog away with some difficulty. By this time both children were extremely scared and upset and were screaming and crying. The owner may have muttered a quiet "sorry" before leaving quickly. No genuine apology or word to check if DC were OK, even though they were obviously extremely disturbed at that point with tears flooding down their faces. She just didn't seem to care.

For us though, it really put a damper on things and unsurprisingly the photography session did not go well. Both children felt unsafe following this (there were other dogs around, many not on lead) and clung to us.

It's not the first time that it's happened, DD was already afraid of dogs due to similar episodes in the past. We try to reassure her that dogs don't normally harm people and that she should just behave normally around them, but I wonder if we should also think more now about safety. Just yesterday, I came across a photo on social media of a little girl who was mauled in the face by a dog. Of course no physical harm came of this episode involving DC, thank goodness, and the dog was probably just over excited. However, the incident is making me feel somewhat uneasy about taking DC to places where dogs can run free.

AIBU to ask that dog owners be extra vigilant with small children around? And obviously, if the dogs are likely to jump up at people, to keep them on lead around small children in public places?

That was a reply to OneTC
Sorry not sure why quote isnt working for me

So annoying. I always put my dogs on a lead when small children are around. And generally try to go to places with few people at all when I want to let them off. One of them is scared of babies / toddlers (and balloons and hats And sheep!) so I would never allow her to go near them off lead - even though she would just bark. By the same token it would be great if people trained their kids not to approach strange dogs!! (Not aimed at you but it's amazing the number of people who don't ask to pet the dogs - they do look cute but I need to be the judge of who should and shouldn't be petting them and how)

Flaxmeadow you sound absolutely barking

I'm more inclined to think I'll fall over with a stress related heart condition brought about living with humans than catching something from my dog. Hysteria can't be good for anyone's blood pressure.

No, I'm merely describing what happened

Oh come off it! “tears flooding down their faces” - You don’t see how over the top and dramatic that sounds? Sure they were upset but you are making it sound like your kids were mauled by a wild bear that even your DH couldn’t ‘fend off’.

A dog jumped up at them, not great, dog should have better recall but no one was hurt the dog wasn’t aggressive and the owner did apologise and quickly take the dog away as you said yourself.

It all comes down to people showing a lack of consideration to others. Yes your dog should be under control, but I also repeatedly get kids coming over to pet my dog without asking.
it is so nice when you have a well mannered child come over and ask to say hello, but it is rare- most just grab.
so for every mumsnet dog hater, they’ll be another “swivel eyed dog owner” complaining about the other.
why can’t we just be kind to each other???

As a matter of fact, they did have tears flooding down their faces. What would you like me to say? They were filled with tears? They were crying loudly and uncontrollably? I am describing their reaction, and if you think that's an over reaction on their behalf, it's your own opinion - it doesn't take anything away from the fact two small children were extremely upset at what happened to them. I already said that they weren't physically hurt - but your comment "it's just a dog jumping up at them" shows just how some people are unable to see through others' perspectives and don't see it as a problem so long as children "didn't get mauled". Precisely why these things keep happening.

The previous message got cut off for some reason. Your comment shows how some people don't see it as a problem so long as children "didn't get mauled". It's precisely why these things keep happening.

@PixieLaLa

but your comment "it's just a dog jumping up at them" shows just how some people are unable to see through others' perspectives and don't see it as a problem so long as children "didn't get mauled". Precisely why these things keep happening

Thats not what I said at all, I said - “A dog jumped up at them, not great, dog should have better recall but no one was hurt the dog wasn’t aggressive and the owner did apologise and quickly take the dog away as you said yourself”

I also didn’t say it’s fine as long as children don’t get mauled but carry on with your over dramatic exaggerations by all means

Sure they were upset but you are making it sound like your kids were mauled by a wild bear that even your DH couldn’t ‘fend off’.

@PixieLaLa

Tell me who's making "over dramatic exaggerations" here. You must have a wild imagination, and have nothing better to do in life than to ridicule other people for saying their children had "tears flooding down their faces".

Absolutely bad manners for that dog owner to let their dog do that. DDog is never allowed to approach children (nor would she want to tbh). However, this does make me glad that DD is being brought up with a dog as she is totally unfazed if a dog jumps up at her and knows how to deal with a curious/boistrous dog appropriately (ie. no screaming and yelling and lashing out, turning her back if it jumps up, etc.) and I think that makes the whole situation safer too, as that kind of behaviour less likely to frighten or upset a temporarily loose dog.

Sure sure, if you call spending the last 20+ years educating dog owners, working with seized dogs, type dogs, rescue dogs, lobbying for changes to legislation, and trying to push the government and police to handle dog related cases differently 'nothing'.. yeah, that's what I've been doing.

You? Typing bullshit on the internet I guess?

We need to look at the other end of the lead in dog attack/injury cases - it is the HUMAN in charge of the dog that is the problem, not typically the dog itself - and even where the dog IS in fact a danger.. who made that dog a danger, ah yes, back to the human again.

We need to seize dogs in dog attack cases and have them assessed by actual behaviour experts.

In many cases in the US, such assessments, forensic bite examination, forensic dentail examination, has shown that the dog didn't inflict the bites; that the dog bite wounds were used to cover up some other injury; that the child was already dead before the dog became involved; that the dog was starved and ate someone dying of injuries inflicted elsewhere...

I will never forget a child abuse case where the childs parent inflicted injuries were hidden by 'bite wounds'... where it eventually turned out they had put the DEAD childs arms and legs in the dogs mouth and forced the dogs mouth closed over them over and over and over.. Those are photos you cannot unsee.

If we could do that... instead of destroying evidence immediately as is typically the case even where it IS possible to handle the dog and remove it from the crime scene, we could learn SO much more, catch more criminals and educate the public and hopefully stop more incidents occurring.

(Before anyone starts, I am not for one single second saying that we keep dogs alive AFTER assessment, when that dog has seriously maimed or killed someone. No matter why they did that, they do still need to be euthanised.)

@WiddlinDiddlin

Sorry are you seriously suggesting the majority of cases where dogs kill children are faked by parents who have already killed/injured the child? Are you SERIOUSLY?

I just don't understand why dog ownership is considered worth fighting for to this extent tbh. Except in the case of highly trained working dogs, what they add to society (mainly dog shit basically) is not worth the risk they represent.

People bang on about "humans have lived with dogs for centuries" as if this somehow justifies it. We've done all sorts of things for a long time we've subsequently thought better of. I think the casual, uncontrolled nature of dog ownership is ripe for a radical rethink.

In fact @WiddlinDiddlin if you can present even one news report of such a case I will be flipping astonished.

And yes obviously it's the fault of the human. The dog is a dumb animal behaving like a dog. But the answer to that isn't that dogs are all fine. It's that there should b far fewer people owning far fewer dogs.

A significant proportion of dog owners are arrogant entitled shitebags, hearing your story doesn’t surprise me one bit sadly. Of course a child’s comfort and safety should take precedence over an animal in a public place. The vast number of dog owners who seem not to agree with this boggles my mind. And I say this as life-long dog lover, who happens to have young children.

They're serious. They will defend dog 'rights' above anything else.

I can’t help but notice it’s only my posts you reply to @ponderingthisthing