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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Borrowed money

106 replies

familydrama3 · 09/05/2022 20:30

I should start by saying that I know I am in the wrong but I want to know if this situation is also unreasonable.

Due to unforeseen circumstances in my husbands job we had to borrow some money from my FIL last year. We were in a situation where we couldn't even afford to put food on the table for us and the kids let alone pay the bills. The money was lent on the condition that it would be paid back at £50 a month until it had been paid off, or if we could afford to pay more then we would.

Fast forward 12 months and my hubby has now found a much better job with better pay. Between us we can pay the bills and food ect. We have also spent the last 12 months minimising any outgoings, this has included swapping bills to better rates, getting rid of two cars that we had on pcp and other measures. We are not well off at all but can afford the essentials.

As soon as DH got his new job my FIL started asking for us to increase the amount we would pay back each month, now this sounds reasonable but they were requesting £1000 a month instead of the £50. This is completely un doable and would have meant us not being able to pay any our bills. We wrote a nice but strong message to him explaining that this is completely impossible and stated what we could pay (more than the £50) and when it would be paid off.

FIL is now refusing to speak to us at all and has been talking about us to other family members. Not that this should matter but FIL is extremely wealthy and is not in desperate need of this money. The only reason I mention this is because we 1000% want to pay off this money as soon as possible but we will not be able to pay our mortgage if we do it in the way that is being requested. I feel that because it is not urgently needed by them it is unreasonable to try and put us in this position.

Like I said at the beginning we fully agree that we are in the wrong for borrowing the money but we also fully expect to pay it all back in full it will just take us slightly longer. Are we being unreasonable?

OP posts:
gamerchick · 10/05/2022 14:33

I must admit paying it off quicker would appeal. Giving it too him in a lump and telling him to fuck off out my life would be more satisfying though.

iwillnotstaycalm · 10/05/2022 14:45

Sounds like the FIL needs a bit of a slap. You agreed on a repayment amount, it is unfair he is backtracking that and demanding more. It's a shame you didn't get anything in writing ! YANBU

Linning · 10/05/2022 15:45

Well your FIL is definitely unreasonable to demand £1000 a month when he had initially agreed to £50/month though I think £50/month on a 5K debt was also unreasonable. I think as a parent who can afford it (rather than just because he is wealthy) I think he should have parted with the money as a one-off, but that being said, I am more wealthy now than I was and I now see people borrowing from me (which is not something I technically mind as I think parts of being friends or family is helping out when you can afford it) in a way that heavily suggest they strongly believe they can just reimburse me on their terms rather than mine because « I can afford to wait for my money » and therefore they could offer ridiculous terms such as £1/month over 60 years and I should about be fine with it because « I won’t miss the money. » and I would be treated as very unreasonable if I refuse as again « what is X amount to me anyway when it could do X,Y,Z for them. »

So again, I don’t mind lending money whenever possible and I wouldn’t ever treat a loan as something that gets me to dictate what people do with their money while I wait to be reimbursed, but I find it pretty insulting when people borrow money from me with this attitude as if they are entitled to my money because I have more than them so what is it to me, if I share some with them. And I saw people on this thread formulating similar thoughts.

The thing is though, I worked hard for my money, I grew up dirt poor, which makes me want to loan money to help but also make me way more money savy as I do know what it’s like to be hungry and that money come and goes so while I have some now, who knows if I will tomorrow? So I do care to not “overloan”, yet I do loan, but here is what I see when I loan:

  • People who borrow more than they need to borrow. (Let’s say they need £2000 for something and already saved up £1600. Instead of borrowing £400 from me. 99.9% of people borrow £2000.) which in my world is rude. I have always learned to avoid debt and only borrow what’s necessary not more as nobody should pay my way
  • People who think it’s okay to borrow and “pay back whenever” or “ASAP” , ASAP for me means very soon, for them I tend to notice ASAP means, as soon as I get around to prioritizing the reimbursement of your loan over small pleasures of mine I am not ready to quit on just yet.
  • People who never pay back and forget the loan as soon as the money hits their bank account.
  • People who borrow from me rather than do what they need to do. Aka they live with a lazy husband who doesn’t want to go to work or participate to the household and so struggle and therefore borrow from me instead of telling him to step up or dumping him and downsizing to something they can afford/reducing their expenses, etc…
  • People who treat the loan they have with me in a way they wouldn’t dare treat their mortgage just because I am an individual and they think I sit on a pile of cash I apparently won’t ever miss.
All those little things really grate on you as someone whose money people happily borrow, not because of the money at stakes (though it’s still hard earned money whether it’s my last stack of cash or one amongst several millions) but because of the emotional message it sends. Personally when any of those scenario happens (and it happens in 99% of the cases) it really hurt me because I see loaning money as a natural part of friendship but “over borrowing” or suggesting to reimburse me in 10 years time or a vague “ASAP” shows the opposite of that to me as does choosing to take my money rather than ask people in their life to step up (whether it’s their own selves or a partner or someone else who owe them money or should pay their way etc…) and it ultimately is making me worry of lending and more defensive of my money as people seem to treat it as disposable and forget it’s actually the fruit of my labor and something I poured my everything into earning.

So could something like that be happening with your FIL? Did you borrow more than you needed to? I know your borrowed 5k to pay off rent, food and bills but did you actually had 5k worth of rent, food, bills, needing coverage or you felt like a “buffer” and a couple extra thousands would be nice and make life easier? Or did he simply just realize that your initial reimbursement plan would have him reimbursed in close to a decade which depending on his age he might have found extremely cheeky and a bit insulting as if you wrongly maybe hoped he wouldn’t outlive the debt or something (I know and I am sure that’s not what you thought at all, but just trying to guess what could go through FIL’s mind)? Or could someone else be helping you out financially that’s not been stepping up? Are you working OP? Full-time? What about DH? Could he somehow think either one of you or both of you aren’t actually making enough of an effort to get out of debt by maximizing your earning potential?

I would try and find out why he suddenly want his money immediately. It’s probably not about the money itself but more something he probably perceive as a disrespect to you/the money he gave you?

Ultimately he is cheeky though for ridiculously demanding 1k a month randomly and expecting you to come up with it out of thin air, but it’s clear he has loaner’s remorse so as shitty as it is of him. I would try to get the loan cleared up ASAP, by probably actually taking up a loan and paying him back in full and paying the bank back in whatever small amounts I can afford (£200/month is reasonable).

Ultimately his wealth doesn’t really matter as who knows what’s happening behind the scene. I am not rich but comfortable and yet so far in the last two months I have been down a couple thousands pounds (in loans I have given out to friends and relative) and so far have gotten 0 pennies back. So you might be one of the many who casually borrowed “just 5k” and who thought paying them back over 10 years was reasonable and now FIL has 100k handed out in loans to various people who are paying it back £50 a month.

All the money people borrow is money I don’t have in case of a personal emergency and money I can’t loan to someone else in need. But people tend to assume they are the only one who borrow from me and that I have unlimited funds to hand out and not miss. (I wish I did but I don’t.)
it can also cause awkward situations where other people are made aware of the loan and suddenly also feel entitled to borrow as we have the same kind of relationships as the last person who borrowed (so say your husband borrowed 5k and now each sibling might feel like they too should get 5k worth of help from their dad.) In reality loaning money is a nightmare and doesn’t really end well in general. And if I have learned something from loaning money is that I would personally rather be liable to a bank for life than liable to a friend for life. Loans change relationships no matter what because there is so much more to the loan than the money, and that’s something I wish I had known before I became generous with my earnings.

redskyatnight · 10/05/2022 16:06

iwillnotstaycalm · 10/05/2022 14:45

Sounds like the FIL needs a bit of a slap. You agreed on a repayment amount, it is unfair he is backtracking that and demanding more. It's a shame you didn't get anything in writing ! YANBU

OP made it pretty clear the £50 was only while they couldn't afford any more - it wasn't intended to be the rate for ever.

Also, all the people being so rude about FIL have forgotten that he was kind enough to lend OP and her DH the money in the first place when they were in hard times and presumably had little other option. I agree that £1000 is unrealistic, but is £200 too little now they are much better off?

Linning · 10/05/2022 16:21

I have also rarely borrowed money but when I did it I always made a rule to treat it as a loan from the bank, whether it was £50 or £5000 and whether it was from a friend or a relative.

Which means that I always always paid back the loan (never allowing anyone to gift me the amount), always always paid back on time, always paid back with interests (I personally chose 10% as my interest rate for all loans anything below that felt cheeky and it always felt like the appropriate thank you for lending to me promptly and without the hassle and checks that banks do) and always always overpaid the monthly repayment if I could.

I think it both shows willingness to set off the debt as well as appreciation to the person who loans you money to do that. I don’t expect interest from people who borrow money from me but I think treating it like a bank loan rather than “Grandma Jane lent me a couple grand but it’s Grandma Jane so it’s okay if I take 10 years to repay her rather than 2 years the bank would give me to repay.” always worked well for me.

Did FIL had to ask you to repay at a higher rate as you didn’t automatically offer once your DH got a better job or? From now on I would either take a bank loan to set off the debt or treat it as one tbh.

D0lphine · 10/05/2022 21:16

Your FIL may take the view that you should be having 0 treats and that the most important thing should be paying off the debt.

He has probably seen / heard about you going out and about, having some treats etc, and got pissed off that you're not taking repayment more seriously.

I have to say that as someone who has lent someone a similar sum, I do see where his mindset has come from (although he has obviously dealt with it badly).

It is hard to see someone buying frivolous things when you know they owe you serious sums of money!

Not for a second suggesting £1,000 a month is reasonably or his behaviour is reasonable. Just offering an alternative perspective

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