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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Borrowed money

106 replies

familydrama3 · 09/05/2022 20:30

I should start by saying that I know I am in the wrong but I want to know if this situation is also unreasonable.

Due to unforeseen circumstances in my husbands job we had to borrow some money from my FIL last year. We were in a situation where we couldn't even afford to put food on the table for us and the kids let alone pay the bills. The money was lent on the condition that it would be paid back at £50 a month until it had been paid off, or if we could afford to pay more then we would.

Fast forward 12 months and my hubby has now found a much better job with better pay. Between us we can pay the bills and food ect. We have also spent the last 12 months minimising any outgoings, this has included swapping bills to better rates, getting rid of two cars that we had on pcp and other measures. We are not well off at all but can afford the essentials.

As soon as DH got his new job my FIL started asking for us to increase the amount we would pay back each month, now this sounds reasonable but they were requesting £1000 a month instead of the £50. This is completely un doable and would have meant us not being able to pay any our bills. We wrote a nice but strong message to him explaining that this is completely impossible and stated what we could pay (more than the £50) and when it would be paid off.

FIL is now refusing to speak to us at all and has been talking about us to other family members. Not that this should matter but FIL is extremely wealthy and is not in desperate need of this money. The only reason I mention this is because we 1000% want to pay off this money as soon as possible but we will not be able to pay our mortgage if we do it in the way that is being requested. I feel that because it is not urgently needed by them it is unreasonable to try and put us in this position.

Like I said at the beginning we fully agree that we are in the wrong for borrowing the money but we also fully expect to pay it all back in full it will just take us slightly longer. Are we being unreasonable?

OP posts:
Whatiswrongwithmyknee · 10/05/2022 07:32

OP on the face of it FIL is being unreasonable but can you tell us more about 'day out with the kids' means? Are you talking blowing £300 on a day to London or entry to a local farm park with a picnic for £50? The former might be something he finds hard to stomach given your previous agreement.

BarbaraofSeville · 10/05/2022 07:32

Upping the monthly payment from £50 to £200 is really good progress given how much the cost of essentials has risen, the debt will be paid off four times quicker than originally agreed.

And I don't think you're unreasonable to have the occasional takeaway or day out with the kids, maybe once a month for each. Even formal debt management solutions allow a modest amount for non essentials, along with a quite generous groceries budget to cover incidentals.

Is he of the type of mindset that takeaways are ridiculously luxurious and wasteful and you should have no treats at all until you've repaid him?

If he's not being polite and rational when you talk to him about this, keep everything in writing, as it will hold you in good stead should he do something silly like take you to the small claims court to recover the debt.

His financial position hasn't changed has it? He's not been conned or made bad investments?

Indicatrice · 10/05/2022 07:41

Whatiswrongwithmyknee · 10/05/2022 07:32

OP on the face of it FIL is being unreasonable but can you tell us more about 'day out with the kids' means? Are you talking blowing £300 on a day to London or entry to a local farm park with a picnic for £50? The former might be something he finds hard to stomach given your previous agreement.

Seriously? Given how frugal OP and her H have been, do you seriously think she’d be spending £300 on a day out?

Gazelda · 10/05/2022 07:42

Well £200 sound much better than "more than £50". And entirely reasonable as a repayment amount. Would he prefer you overstretch yourselves and fall back into debt?

What a shame you're not being encouraged to feel proud of yourselves for getting through the rough patch (with FIL's help) and back on your feet so quickly.

How do you know he's bad mouthing you to other relatives?

Indicatrice · 10/05/2022 07:43

Sleepeatrepeat · 09/05/2022 20:46

It absolutely had a bearing. If they borrowed £1000 then £50/month is going to take nearly 2 years to pay off of ot was £10,000 then that it going to take nearly 20 years.

Also depends on how much of an increase the new job has afforded them...

@familydrama3 did you get anything in writing at the time of the loan?

Show quote history

No, it has no bearing. What was agreed with FIL was £50pm and then more when OP and her DH could afford it. This is what FIL agreed to,

OP has been making the payments and now that their situation is better, they have upped payments to £200.

PurassicJark · 10/05/2022 07:45

Hmm on this I think since your husband got a better paying job, you should have accounted an increase into your budget, BUT, I'm talking like £100-200, not £1000. That's just mental unless your husband went from like 25k to 100k. Then I could see why your fil would be thinking you have lots of money now, pay your debt rather than leave it stewing for years. But I'm guessing that's not the case, so a small increase would have been good to do more for your benefit so you pay it back quicker. He is being unreasonable expecting such a large increase, that would I'm guessing be about half your husbands pay each month. If he takes it back like that, all he's going to end up doing is either watching his grandkids starve or have to lend it again. Bit pointless really.

BorsetshireBanality · 10/05/2022 07:58

I would be a bit more guarded about your lives financially - no talk of days out or DH getting a bonus etc.

Your FIL sounds like Shylock wanting his pound of flesh. By all means pay back a bit more each month if you can but not 1k a month.

whowhatwerewhy · 10/05/2022 08:13

You can only give him what you can afford . Maybe he thinks the new job is bringing in £££££ . Point out to him the new job only give you an extra x amount, bills have gone up x amount and you are giving him as much as you possibly can .

LookItsMeAgain · 10/05/2022 08:17

InChocolateWeTrust · 09/05/2022 20:34

Can you get an ordinary bank loan with repayments are a rate you can manage, and use it to repay him?

He is being a bit of a git to change his mind when he had previously agreed to £50 a month, but this is why you should never borrow off family. Is it possible he's realised the current rate of inflation is going to completely devalue the money before you pay it back?

This is precisely what I would do.

Apply for a bank/credit union loan and pay it back in instalments but use the loan to pay your FiL back in one go.

I hope you manage to get yourselves sorted and may your FiL never have a moments peace with his money.

ChristmasCurry · 10/05/2022 08:23

Also send him a different version of Scrooge every Christmas !

latetothefisting · 10/05/2022 08:33

FrangipaniBlue · 09/05/2022 23:26

I really wish people would read the original post PROPERLY before replying.

To quote the OP:

We wrote a nice but strong message to him explaining that this is completely impossible and stated what we could pay (more than the £50) and when it would be paid off.

I know it should be one of the 10 commandments of mumsnet
"Thou shalt not be so keen to provide thy wise and wondrous opinion that thou dost not take the time to read ye opening post which dost answer that query thou hast posted."

Herejustforthisone · 10/05/2022 08:51

My FIL in law did something similar. We asked to borrow (less than £5k as we’d been broken into and was waiting for insurance) and he was all over us demanding it back with interest, inside a month of us borrowing it. He also felt a claim on the item we’d borrowed it for.

The real kicker was they’d given SIL six figures towards the purchase of her huge house as a gift.

Herejustforthisone · 10/05/2022 09:01

Were waiting 😳

MzHz · 10/05/2022 09:05

You’re not being unreasonable

whats he going to do? Sue you? He’d get nothing- and possibly the judge would say stick to the original £50 per month

you know the truth, you can prove it, so try not to let him get to you, state the truth if asked and carry on.

I feel for you, it’s utterly shit.

grapewines · 10/05/2022 09:15

Try to get a bank loan, pay him back and never speak to him about what you do with your money again.

PBJTime · 10/05/2022 09:19

He's being unreasonable - £1,000 a month when your still really getting back on your feet is crazy. £200 seems reasonable, if you owe him a couple of thousand I can see why he's worried as it'll take you a couple of years to pay back but you can't get blood from a stone.

Crikeyalmighty · 10/05/2022 09:24

I think he's a horrible arse not to just give you the money if he's seriously wealthy, my FIL offered out the blue and gave us £15k at the start of the pandemic as 'emergency' money as he knew that we didn't have much in savings and was unsure if our jobs would be affected.

DuckbilledSplatterPuff · 10/05/2022 09:43

I was a bit intrigued to know what this demand represented and found that "A change from 50 to 1000 represents a positive change (increase) of 1900%"

Your agreement with him was that you would repay more when you were able which is what you have done and that he expected this to take several years. I think some people's idea of seeing what a bank would charge in these circumstances and particularly what they would consider a reasonable payment.(even if you don't think you will be able to get a loan) Also have a look at moneysaving website as I recall they have a whole chapter on how to improve your credit rating if its taken a hit, which would be useful anyway.

I don't think you should show FIL a spreadsheet of your outgoings so he can see what you can afford to pay as has been suggested because he's not a reasonable person and it would open the door to micromanaging your life.

It sounds like your response to him was quite clear and firm and you've increased your repayments to £200 a month or £2.4 k a year, which is not insubstantial. It sounds like you are doing your best and are on the path to improving your situation so I wish you all the best.

ThatLibraryMiss · 10/05/2022 10:13

latetothefisting · 10/05/2022 08:33

I know it should be one of the 10 commandments of mumsnet
"Thou shalt not be so keen to provide thy wise and wondrous opinion that thou dost not take the time to read ye opening post which dost answer that query thou hast posted."

Show quote history

"Blesséd are they that RTFT before posting their pearls of wisdom, for they shall not repeat the faulty advice that 50% of previous posters have given."

fruitbrewhaha · 10/05/2022 10:24

What a git your FIL is. If he is "extremely wealthy" then why does he need it back at all?

Testina · 10/05/2022 10:37

I don’t think it matters that your FIL is wealthy. The agreement was a loan, so it’s a loan.

Of I understand your posts correctly, your husband got a new job, and then his father asked for the increase?

£1K a month is obviously ridiculous, but is he stating such a high amount out of frustration that it was him who had to approach his son?

You’ve spent this year reducing outgoings including two PCP cars and now have a bigger income. And yet FIL had to come to you (well, your husband).

Perhaps the £1K demand is simply that he’s pissed off that his generosity wasn’t met by his son saying, “hey dad, new job! I’ve changed the amount to £100, and hope to increase it again soon.”

£1K is such a big amount that I think it’s a “show” demand because his son didn’t go to him first.

MarJau26 · 10/05/2022 10:38

Yanbu, if he is very wealthy as you say then he is just horrible for putting your family under pressure. You had an arrangement and he has changed that. I can't imagine dc not having food on the table and not offering to just give them the money.

Indicatrice · 10/05/2022 11:01

Testina · 10/05/2022 10:37

I don’t think it matters that your FIL is wealthy. The agreement was a loan, so it’s a loan.

Of I understand your posts correctly, your husband got a new job, and then his father asked for the increase?

£1K a month is obviously ridiculous, but is he stating such a high amount out of frustration that it was him who had to approach his son?

You’ve spent this year reducing outgoings including two PCP cars and now have a bigger income. And yet FIL had to come to you (well, your husband).

Perhaps the £1K demand is simply that he’s pissed off that his generosity wasn’t met by his son saying, “hey dad, new job! I’ve changed the amount to £100, and hope to increase it again soon.”

£1K is such a big amount that I think it’s a “show” demand because his son didn’t go to him first.

If you read the thread, you'll see OP and her husband HAVE been increasing payments based on their increased income, and that they are paying £200pm.

LindaEllen · 10/05/2022 11:06

Sleepeatrepeat · 09/05/2022 20:34

Never a borrower nor a lender be.

How much did you borrow and when will you have paid it back? It hink this impacts on whether he is being unreasonable

Yes you're right, OP should definitely have let her kids starve instead.

For goodness sake.

AndAsIfByMagic · 10/05/2022 11:17

FiL is being a prick. Pay what you can and ignore his moans. When it's paid off drop him from your family.

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