Should the Deputy Head have been allowed to do this?

[SandwhichGenerationGal]

DD has four year old twins. They attend nursery school 09.00-3.15.
Twin 1 was sent home early with a temperature. DD kept her off the next day and she developed diarrhoea. I was visiting but needed to leave at 2pm to go to work (I am a nurse). Suggested she call school and ask to collect twin 2 at 2pm so I could stay at home with twin 1 and new baby (I don’t drive and school half hour walk). DD rang school (gave reasons for wanting to collect early) and was told deputy head would need to give permission and would call back. She didn’t call so DD phoned again and was told she was in a meeting. DD then drove to the school and asked to collect twin 2. Was informed deputy head had refused permission. Suggested their dad could collect her at the normal time or she could go to after school club, (has never been before and doesn’t even know what it is). DD said neither option was acceptable. DSIL is a doctor and can’t just leave at a moments notice (of course he would if it was emergency) and twin 2 was unprepared for attending after school club for the first time). Deputy head refused point blank and DD had to come home. I ended up staying and was late for work.
When did schools become so obsessed with their attendance stats that they take priority over the child’s health and well being?
They are four FFS and not even legally required to be in school.
Was the deputy head within her rights to refuse this or is she just a power mad controlling jobsworth? DD didn’t even get into the school, it was all done over the intercom. I am livid.

Yeah but no need for after school club, when she can just leave nursery an hour early 🤷🏻‍♀️

I'm admin in a school, we would never refuse to let a parent take their child home. Maybe advise not to, but not refuse.

I have gone to pick up one of my kids because they were unwell and been asked if I’d like to take them all at the same time many times. A school has no authority to not let a parent take a child unless there is a concern about the child’s safety, this is way overstepping by the deputy.

I’m not sure they did. Schools can’t stop you removing your child unless there is a real safety concern. Which unless the op has missed the part where her DD was drunk or had beaten up a teacher…there clearly isn’t.

@prh47bridge I’ve found your helpful replies fascinating, but very unnerving!

As can be seen from the other responses, the majority believe that the parent would have the right to get their child and the school would not have the legal right to stop them, unless the school thought the child was in danger.

Do you have any links to relevant references? (To be clear, I’m not doubting you, just keen to know more.)

Deputy head was not only wrong but possibly ( and I emphasise possibly) acting illegally. It was a perfectly valid reason for the child to go home. The child is 4 so does not legally have to be at home and the deputy head was preventing the parent from getting their child, in effect retaining the child in school against the parent’s wishes. I’d be onto a solicitor because I hate pompous head teachers who think they’re god.

It wouldn't even have had to be an unauthorised absence, the child would have been there for the register at the beginning of the afternoon!!

Their motives can only have been to avoid disrupting the class/ to not set a precedent, 'imagine if everyone picked their kids up when they "felt" like it'.

Where does OP live? In Wales compulsory school age is the school year where you are 4 on 1 Sept. So slightly different to England.

@ Mellicauli - How is making a request to collect a child early asking the school to sort out my domestic arrangements? I wasn’t asking them to sort out anything.
You think she should have gone to after school club. How do you think you would feel if I plucked you out of your familiar environment (home or work), without warning and put you in a room with loads of strangers and told you to talk to them? No idea why you were there or when you might see your family again. Would you feel upset, anxious, distressed, nervous? Of course you would an you are an adult, better able to make sense of it.
BTW I definitely have a backbone and you are definitely goady 🙄

Our school has blanket policy on kids not leaving early unless an emergency.

They say its massively disruptive and there isnt always the staff to go get the child and bring them out to the parent without leaving a class unsupervised or having to stop a class activity.

The relevant law is the School Standards and Framework Act 1998 S61 which gives the Head wide powers to set and enforce rules and other measures to "regulate the conduct of pupils". This entitles the Head to decide, for example, that pupils may not leave the school other than at lunchtime or the end of the day other than in exceptional circumstances. As with all other measures under this section, that can be enforced regardless of parental opposition.

If I were giving guidance to schools, I would recommend a pragmatic approach. You don't want a stream of parents randomly taking their children out halfway through a lesson. That would be very disruptive. But equally, if there is a good reason why a parent needs to take their child out of school part way through a morning or afternoon session, it is in general best to allow them to do so. I suspect that most LAs recommend a similar approach to this.

In secondary schools, of course, you have the additional consideration that you should not physically prevent a pupil leaving the school whenever they want unless there are safety concerns. In the OP's case we are dealing with a primary school. At that age, it would generally be reasonable to physically prevent any pupil leaving school as there would be concerns for their safety.

Of course, a pupil trying to leave the school premises is a very different situation from a parent turning up part way through a lesson and wanting to collect their child.

Thanks @PAFMO

@mellicauli - not goady?! If not deliberately goady, then your lack of self-awareness and total absence of empathy are seriously impressive. Getting a backbone and having an iron rod shoved up your arse are two different things…

I'm talking about the law. To refer back to my initial comment, I disagree with the Deputy Head's actions in this case. Saying the Deputy Head did not break the law is not the same as saying they did the right thing.

Nothing to add other than sympathy and gratitude that none of my 4 children attended such a batshit school.

14 years of primary an I never came across anything but understand and accommodation in a similar situation.

Formal complaint would be the least of it if I came across such utter ridiculousness.

Years ago I collected MY child 30 minutes early because a friend called in a total panic stuck behind a crash and knew she was never going to get her on time for pick up.

This child was in a different school. I collected my child early (total understanding from her teacher), went to the other school, explained the situation, my pal had forwarned the school.

Nothing but understanding and cooperation from all involved.

I would be so cross in this situation and would have a real loss of confidence in them going forward.

sn hour of nursery!!

I don't think her A levels are going to suffer!

🙄🙄🙄🙄🤣🙄🤣

@prh47bridge - surely there would come a point where a school’s decision to refuse to release a child early would be so unreasonable as to be unlawful? And does the law really apply to children who are not of compulsory school age? Could a nursery refuse to hand over a 2-year old?

because they don't allow 4 year olds to walk home alone in the U.K.

This is bonkers. But I find with schools that you need to tell them as the parent what's happening rather than ever suggest you're asking permission.

But no way would the school have withheld my DS if I'd said I was taking him home. There would definitely have been a scene and I would have forced the issue.

In schools I’ve worked in we never refuse. It may be counted as unauthorised.
however in one school there was no hospital in town, so parents would often have to take siblings to hospital appointments especially if they went by public transport.
the DP was ridiculous

I think the school is ‘guilty’ of Wednesbury unreasonableness. In the very unlikely event that this case ever went to judicial review, I believe there would a strong chance that the deputy’s conduct would be held to be unreasonable.

Shocking, OP. The last thing your poor DD needed was that to deal with on top of already no doubt being concerned about DGD. Glad she has lodged a complaint.

I can’t imagine the governors would condone this conduct. Anyway, hopefully the teacher will see sense and apologise.

Like other posters, I have had to do this once with the full approval of the school; it would never have occurred to me that they would say no, let alone actually having the legal right to do so.

Hope DGD gets better soon - and that DGD2 doesn’t get it too. X

I don't care what some sec 61 blah blah says. If I go to collect my child, my child will be coming with me.

Dep H is a power crazy twat

At my DD's school of I go to get her early, the office rings her teacher and she comes out. She is my child, after all. Deputy head was ridiculous!

I think that @LoveSpringDaffs put it much more eloquently than me! 😊

A nursery school is generally a school for 3-4 year olds - not a reception class in a primary or infant school, but a “school” where 100% of the children are below compulsory school age. I’m having a really hard time believing the law is so draconian that children who are not of compulsory school age can still be kept in nursery school against their parents’ will once they have been dropped off for the day.