Should the Deputy Head have been allowed to do this?

[SandwhichGenerationGal]

DD has four year old twins. They attend nursery school 09.00-3.15.
Twin 1 was sent home early with a temperature. DD kept her off the next day and she developed diarrhoea. I was visiting but needed to leave at 2pm to go to work (I am a nurse). Suggested she call school and ask to collect twin 2 at 2pm so I could stay at home with twin 1 and new baby (I don’t drive and school half hour walk). DD rang school (gave reasons for wanting to collect early) and was told deputy head would need to give permission and would call back. She didn’t call so DD phoned again and was told she was in a meeting. DD then drove to the school and asked to collect twin 2. Was informed deputy head had refused permission. Suggested their dad could collect her at the normal time or she could go to after school club, (has never been before and doesn’t even know what it is). DD said neither option was acceptable. DSIL is a doctor and can’t just leave at a moments notice (of course he would if it was emergency) and twin 2 was unprepared for attending after school club for the first time). Deputy head refused point blank and DD had to come home. I ended up staying and was late for work.
When did schools become so obsessed with their attendance stats that they take priority over the child’s health and well being?
They are four FFS and not even legally required to be in school.
Was the deputy head within her rights to refuse this or is she just a power mad controlling jobsworth? DD didn’t even get into the school, it was all done over the intercom. I am livid.

That's absolutely untrue, they really can't physically withhold a child from their parents unless they are protecting them from harm (which would be a really extreme situation, obviously not remotely related to this situation).

I'm an experienced teacher and have to do safeguarding training regularly. We really can't a) force a child to go to school or b) forcibly keep a child from going home with their parents.

We can only log it as an unauthorised absence, and IF we think the child is at risk of harm (clearly not the case here) then could take other steps.

Nice try but no, this is not remotely unlawful imprisonment. And you are wrong about "all it is entitled to do". It is absolutely entitled to refuse to release the child until the end of the school day. If the OP's daughter had wanted to take the child at lunchtime it would have been a different matter.

Once a child is in school, the school has rights in law that trump PR.

You said nursery school? So not even school? Or do you mean reception class?

if it’s nursery this is totally ridiculous

if it’s reception it’s still unreasonable

Presumably Twin 1 will have shared her tummy bug with Twin 2 and most of her family and classmates.

Hopefully the Deputy Head is the one with Health and Safety training in operating the mop and bucket...

Wow gobsmacked by this! Definitely make a complaint.

He's not even of an age where school is a requirement, no he's not allowed to refuse you taking your own child. I have twins, honestly in this situation I'd have called the police if they'd have refused to let me have my child immediately.

Are you serious?? I can’t believe this is legal? So schools can basically detain your child against your will? That’s horrifying!! This is really putting me off sending my child until I absolutely have to.

From a legal perspective, a school does not have to allow a parent to take a child out of school part way through a session. Whether it is a good idea is another matter and depends on the situation. But if a parent turned up mid-afternoon demanding that the school release their child and the school refused, I would expect the courts to back the school unless the school were being Wednesbury unreasonable.

I run safeguarding training courses, by the way! 😊

I would have been fuming and insisted on them letting me in to collect MY child. How bloody dare they!

No, schools can never trump PR.

This is unbelievable! YANBU!

The only explanation is that the message to the Deputy Head was lost in translation, surely …..

I'm all for supporting our schools to maintain routines and boundaries, but that's nuts.

I have 3 kids in the same setting, one in the nursery and two in school. If one is sick and it's close to the end of the day, I always say I'll take all 3 at the same time. I'm not driving there, picking up and then forcing a sick kid back into the car to collect the others an hour later.

You would think that the pandemic would have put an end to this authoritarian attitude from schools. The whole idea of fines for holidays, judgemental attitudes to other absences hasn't really stood up to the fact that schools can unilaterally close, leaving children to their (working from home) parents to be "schooled" for months...

I hope that parents will learn from that and remember that we actually have the final say on these things.

I teach primary.

This is not an uncommon situation, especially with single parents. One child is sent home ill and there is no one to be with them while the siblings are collected. So all children are collected.

As for attendance data, they will have had their attendance mark for the day.

Think @prh47bridge might know more about the legalities of this torrid tale than most randoms on MN tbf.
Nice to see you @prh47bridge

Isn't needing someone to pick her up a reason? Is mum really expected to take sick 4 year old and baby on an hours walk so the other 4 year old can have 1 hr 15 minutes in school. Utterly ridiculous.

Thank you all.
@ Rogue1001MNer - what is PR? Is it primary residency? If so, yes she does
@ artisan bread - it’s the first time
@ threetulips - lesson learnt. Will definitely have appointments in future 😉. How sad it encourages lying though

I am gobsmacked at the response from the school here. I really hope your daughter is making a formal complaint.

My school would also have allowed her to go home under those circumstances. Your DGD would have already been counted as present for afternoon attendance so that is unlikely to have been the issue. For all she’d have missed at that time is sounds like she’s a jobsworth or the situation wasn’t properly explained to her, if she was even asked which is possible. School secretary could have been told not to interrupt the meeting and made the decision themselves without passing the message on.

So schools can basically detain your child against your will? That’s horrifying!!

I really don’t think they can. Parental responsibility can only be removed or restricted by a court.

Perhaps because the school is not a prison? Parent has parental rights, not the school!

OP in future I'd just be telling them. Ridiculous behaviour from the school.

I had a similar issue a few weeks back with one ill child, one well one.

I picked up my youngest at about 2ish.

The school asked me if I wanted to pick up my eldest then rather than wait until later.

I’d raise holy hell with the school.

there’s no way in hell my kid would be swanning off to after school club when it wasn’t pre planned.

I’f have absolutely lost my shit with them

I would change nurseries. They are not old enough to be in school. It is not a statutory requirement for them to be there. The nursery is probably acting illegally by holding onto her.

Some schools ask for a copy of the letter if children have medical appointments in school time.

I don’t think it’s relevant that your child is only four, schools don’t differentiate between children in a class that have turned five and those who haven’t, and the entire school from reception to year six should be treated the same when it comes to authorised time off. The school doesn’t want to set a precedent where parents think that can take children out of school whenever they want for the sake of their siblings and parents convenience, which is understandable IMO. Although it wouldn’t matter in reception, it can be disruptive to have a child need to get ready and leave in the middle of a session.

@ Rogue1001MNer - I know what PR means now 😂 yes she does

Your dd error was in giving too much detail. Next time, say I need to collect early for medical or dental appointment or family emergency. I am a teacher and I cannot imagine my school saying no to such a reasonable request.