Or is my brother a CF

[Potentiallytakenforaride]

Quick context (it’s relevant, I promise). My older brother is a bit of a ne’er-do-well. Had all of life’s opportunities - top private school education etc etc, but has ended up making very poor decisions, smoking lots of weed and generally being a bit of a user and very selfish. Eg lives in a family owned flat for 1/4 of what it’s worth and still complains/is the victim, quits his job frequently to go travelling then wonders why his gf of the time isn’t there when he returns after 9 months, constantly agrees to meet me for lunch and then doesn’t want to pay so I have to.

Anyway my father (who DB doesn’t speak to) bought me my first car a few years ago. A shitty little run around but I loved it! I had a child and needed a larger car (it’s 2 door and was a disaster with car seat) and I’m pretty financially comfortable so I gave it to DB as he wanted to learn to drive. This was on the agreement he didn’t just sell it but actually use it (if I wanted to sell it I would have sold it myself but wanted it to go to my brother to use if that makes sense).

3 years later he has not passed his test, has broken up with another gf and has decided to give her the car. He hasn’t talked to me first, offered it back to me (would be quite useful with 3 children to have a second car) or anything - my mother just came and told me he’s given it to her.

AIBU to think he could have discussed it first? I appreciate I gave him the car so some (or most) people will say it’s his to do what he wants with, it just feels a bit shitty.

TLDR: I gave my brother my old car and he’s now given it to his ex as some sort of parting gift.

You talk about him as if he’s been given everything and you haven’t in 1 breath then say you’ve all had the same start.
It sounds like you resent him and the others for having cheap rent, also you got the car for free? Why not pass it on, it’s been years and was a free car on why talk about you would sell it, when it was already free.

Sounds like everyone’s just wanting what they can get, regardless of who’s doing well or not, cos even the ones not doing well are getting what they want, and you seem resentful.

Was you are you that posted before about the roast potato saga?

Can you check on line if you are the owner? I''d be concerned its had the road tax paid etc.

Obviously your brother is in the wrong.
But honestly OP, you knew what he was like, so you could have easily predicted this sort of thing.

Sounds to me like your car was stolen in 2019 then, by him possibly selling it to a third party. I would hazard a guess that the giving it to a girlfriend story is just that - a story.

He doesn't sound like a giver, it's probably a pay off of some kind. Your brother is an over indulged tosser and taker, so stop enabling him. He won't change so you should. Good luck.

@Hertsgirl10

what roast potato saga?

we all had the same start in life as in the same tools to make something of ourselves. Something I appreciate deeply as I realise it’s not what everyone gets. But I feel like because I have done well for myself and he has not, he has been treated in a way that makes it quite unfair. Mostly it doesn’t bother me because I don’t need the help, but of course it’s extremely unfair to let one child live for free for several years and then at a reduced rent and not the other. Or to take one child out for dinner 2/3 times a week and not the other. Again, it’s not the money it’s the unfairness and how it makes me feel. Maybe I’m entitled in that I think I’m entitled to fairness?

@AbbieLexie

have confirmed online I am not the owner!

@IDidntKnowItWasAParty

i just wanted to see as if I’m not wrong this might be a good opportunity to explain I am
not happy with his behaviour and won’t be enabling any longer. He will make plans with me and the children and cancel last minute if a better offer comes along (eg a free meal with someone or smoking weed with his friends). I’ve had enough.

@longwayoff

its very frustrating that my mother has said I can’t say anything because I basically now can’t say anything until he chooses to tell me and I doubt he will given our exchange this evening

er dont you have to sign the slip saying youve passed it on /sold it-if you didnt has he forged your signature

@whynotwhatknot

i do not have this but also it was 3 years ago so I don’t really remember what we did and apparently he doesn’t either

we arrange to do something and on the way there he says “by the way I don’t have any money”.

most recent example is this:
he says let’s take the children for lunch
I get to the place and order for them and for me
he arrives, orders nothing and comments 4 times on how amazing my food looks. I tell
him after 4th time to get what I’m having then. He says “I don’t want to spend any money because I’m getting a crown put in this afternoon and that’s expensive” and looks at me expectantly. I feel embarrassed and say he can go and order the salad I’m having and I will pay. He goes and orders a completely different, far more expensive dish with a drink and then wants a coffee too.

How often do you fall for this? If it keeps happening then either a) you don't mind/actually enjoy being seen as the bountiful one and enabling his behaviour or b) you like moaning about it and feeling hard done by afterwards.

On the first instance, you should say "We/You might as well go back home then because I'm not funding you".

On the second instance "You shouldn't have said to take the children for lunch then should you?" "If you are not prepared to spend any money then you'll have to go without".

I actually think you enjoy being taken advantage of by him.

Very top of the V5 it very clearly states "This is not proof of ownership". Whose name is on the V5 is irrelevant as regards who owns what. It merely defines who is responsible for dealing with legal matters (speeding/parking tickets, tax, insurance, who is allowed to drive etc) and for that reason alone you should have transferred it to his name when you gave him the car - and you as the keeper are responsible for notifying the DVLA (the new keeper/owner has little incentive to do so if they intend to pick up speeding tickets etc as it will be you who will have to answer for them). You should have received a letter of confirmation from the DVLA shortly after.

Your brother should have spoken to you before disposing of it but had you agreed anything when you gave him it? If nothing was agreed and he's had it for 3 years now I'm kind of thinking it's more or less his to do with as he sees fit.

I think you were kind to gift your brother the car. I think hoping that someone may take some responsibility, learn and gain a bit of independence from your kindness is priceless. Sadly, it wasn't to be in this case.

I think yabu to be upset by this as it was 3 years ago. That is a long time and it certainly doesn't sound like this car will have a significant monetary value. I know that isn't your point, but I couldn't let this bother me if this was my situation. I probably wouldn't think twice about trying to help my sibling again either.

My main priority would be trying to find out if the V5 form had been completed correctly and that I was no longer the registered keeper. If penalties are broken, I'm pretty sure the fines will come your way if it wasn't finalised initially with your brother.

You didn't lend the car. You gave it to him, so title has passed. He can do what he likes with it. It probably isn't worth much anyway.

How often do you fall for this? If it keeps happening then either a) you don't mind/actually enjoy being seen as the bountiful one and enabling his behaviour or b) you like moaning about it and feeling hard done by afterwards

this is unfair and untrue - I generally just feel embarrassed and ashamed. I feel like I would be mean not to pay for him when I can, although it does then make me feel used and like a total sucker as I know he is just expecting it.

Your brother should have spoken to you before disposing of it but had you agreed anything when you gave him it?

the agreement was he wouldn’t sell it; but there wasn’t really a long term plan if you see what I mean. I do absolutely see the point re how long he’s had it etc it just almost feels to me as he never passed his test he has barely even used it! I know it sounds silly I think it would be different if he had used it himself for 3 years and then sold it but it’s like his gf has used it for 3 years and now has it and none of that was my intention - I gave it to him as my brother. I suppose also it’s that if he’s just giving it to her and he doesn’t give a shit about it/he’s not even selling it then again I don’t see why if he didn’t care he couldn’t give it back to me.

but perhaps PPs are right that he’s settling a debt or something…

There can be a car owner and a registered keeper. The person whose name is on the document is the keeper, they are responsible for taxing it and paying any fines. They are not necessarily the owner. Whoever paid for the car originally (your dad?) was the owner. He gave you ownership. You can tell your brother you did not give him the car to keep, which means he does not have permission to give it away.

You didn't lend the car. You gave it to him, so title has passed. He can do what he likes with it. It probably isn't worth much anyway

it’s not worth much but it’s not about the money.

I agree he can do what he likes with it. I get that. I still just don’t think it’s what I would have done (and isn’t when I gave it to my brother as I asked my father).

This looks like he is actually the owner though so we must have transferred ownership 3 years ago and neither of us remember

If you dare not speak in front of your mother and are not supposed to know he's given it away just ask him to return it to you. Preferably with mama to hand. You sound as if you all live in a kindergarten.any grown ups around to help you out?

this is unfair and untrue - I generally just feel embarrassed and ashamed. I feel like I would be mean not to pay for him when I can, although it does then make me feel used and like a total sucker as I know he is just expecting it.

Why do you feel ashamed? He is using you and has done so often yet you keep allowing him to do so which is why I came to the conclusions I did. You know what he will do/say yet you still blithely go along with it instead of saying something when he suggests going out and pre-empting the "I've no money" bollocks.

Oh dear. Well at least now you know that he will take whatever he's given and won't return either what he's given or the favour. It's up to you what you now do with this information. If I were you I would take care to ensure that you never lend or give him more than you are happily prepared to lose, even if it makes you feel a bit mean. He's an adult, he can take care of himself.

You must have had an inkling that your brother would do what he has done with the car, why are you surprised that he has indeed done just that.

@BronwenFrideswide

it sounds crazy because of how much of a CF is but honestly I am surprised time and time again/I always think he will be different somehow.

It is like for my birthday. This year he said he would take me for lunch.lovely. I’m pregnant so he said he will wait until after the baby is born so I can drink. I explained I don’t want to drink and I would rather go now than when the baby is here as I would have to take the baby which wouldn’t be relaxing for me, or wait until the baby was quite a bit older. This was 3 months ago and nothing more has been said. He inherited 21k last year and from what I’ve seen he has spent it all on himself; nothing went to the gf. She bought a cat and he was supposed to pay half but said “she’s bought it already so what’s the point”.

I guess it’s become more of a “family joke” but actually this thread and writing this down has made me realise how unfunny it is and how much it fucks me off. And actually why do I feel bad about him saying he can’t afford a salad when he inherited 21k last year?! Sometimes someone can be so shameless you feel their shame for them!

So what are you going to do about it?

Ampleforth by any chance?
They seem to have form for turning out these types.

Ah, okay, @Potentiallytakenforaride. Are you being blinded by the fact is your brother, i.e., your flesh and blood so you have to forgive him his foibles, or are you doing it not to rock the boat within the family? You surely wouldn't accept this treatment from anyone else.

He's proven time and time again he won't change, realistically why would he? He's onto a good thing.

It isn't funny, you are right, he has no shame why should you. It's time to stop enabling him. Yes he's your brother and no doubt you love him but you can dislike him and the way he behaves. Stand up for yourself and show you won't be a pushover for him anymore, he'll soon get the message. Put your mother straight too if you have to.