Or is my brother a CF

[Potentiallytakenforaride]

Quick context (it’s relevant, I promise). My older brother is a bit of a ne’er-do-well. Had all of life’s opportunities - top private school education etc etc, but has ended up making very poor decisions, smoking lots of weed and generally being a bit of a user and very selfish. Eg lives in a family owned flat for 1/4 of what it’s worth and still complains/is the victim, quits his job frequently to go travelling then wonders why his gf of the time isn’t there when he returns after 9 months, constantly agrees to meet me for lunch and then doesn’t want to pay so I have to.

Anyway my father (who DB doesn’t speak to) bought me my first car a few years ago. A shitty little run around but I loved it! I had a child and needed a larger car (it’s 2 door and was a disaster with car seat) and I’m pretty financially comfortable so I gave it to DB as he wanted to learn to drive. This was on the agreement he didn’t just sell it but actually use it (if I wanted to sell it I would have sold it myself but wanted it to go to my brother to use if that makes sense).

3 years later he has not passed his test, has broken up with another gf and has decided to give her the car. He hasn’t talked to me first, offered it back to me (would be quite useful with 3 children to have a second car) or anything - my mother just came and told me he’s given it to her.

AIBU to think he could have discussed it first? I appreciate I gave him the car so some (or most) people will say it’s his to do what he wants with, it just feels a bit shitty.

TLDR: I gave my brother my old car and he’s now given it to his ex as some sort of parting gift.

He probably owes her money

So when you handed him the car did you let the DVLA know? Aren’t you supposed to tell them you’ve passed it in and him to say he’s the new owner? If you never assigned ownership to him and he never accepted it’s still yours isn’t it? Ask for it back.

You knew what he was like so I have no idea why you gave it to him in the first place

Cut your losses and don't do it again

3 years…. He’s had it for 3 years. You were never going to get the car back. You should have asked for it back after 6 months.

grow some boundaries etc. Accept who he is. Don’t take him out for meals etc or tell
him in advance hes paying.

shock You can't just go through life considering something belongs to you just because you've had use of it for quite a while! Even squatters have to live in a house for 10 years before they can even think of claiming squatters' rights.

It's more likely that the brother hasn't told the girlfriend the circumstances of how he came to have the car. OP isn't clear whether she literally gave him ownership of the car or just changed the registered keeper to be her brother. She's probably still the legal owner so god knows what the brother thinks he's trying to do.

Did you tell your dad you were giving it to your brother after he bought it for you? As its basically the same scenario

I wouldn’t worry.
You are financially stable so if you required a second car you could purchase one.
He has owned the car for 3 years, so up to him what he does with it. It’s not as though he’s made financial gain from selling it on.
You don’t need a licence to be the registered keeper.

OP, there are some unhealthy dynamics at play here tied up with some assumptions about certain things instead of proper clear communication of expectations. To be honest, you sound a bit wet where your brother is concerned. Why do you let him take advantage of you? It's horrible behaviour - time to grow some balls and to tell him what's what.

I mean, this: constantly agrees to meet me for lunch and then doesn’t want to pay so I have to.

No, you DON'T have to. For most people, they'd let someone do this once and give them the benefit of the doubt the first time. If it happened again they'd either make them pay their share, that was first agreed as part of the discussion about the lunch arrangements, in very clear terms about expectations of who was paying, and if they refused to pay or came up with an excuse they would simply not go to lunch with them again. It's freeloading. No-one likes these people. Well, that's clear, because none of his girlfriends like him, they get the measure of him quite quickly and don't hang around.

It sounds like your dad has told him straight that he needs to stop sponging off him, and that's why your brother doesn't talk to him, because he doesn't like what he's been told. Your mum and you pussyfoot around him, and he takes advantage of that, particularly your desire to continue a relationship with him. Your mum probably wants to try to keep the sibling relationship going hence all these suggestions of keeping things secret from your dad.

Really, really unhealthy, OP. You do need to grow a pair.

Who has been insuring the car for the last three years? Paying the MOT etc? I would make sure the gf has transferred everything to her name and forget about it. It was a gift to you , you regifted it, it has now been passed on to someone new…….

I also would have been mindful of the possible effect on your dad's relationship with your brother when you initially said to your brother that he could have use of a car that your dad gave to YOU. Your dad probably put his foot down and deliberately didn't want to give your brother a car because he's such a sponger who doesn't stick at anything. It must have grated a bit when you approached your dad to tell him you were letting your brother use the car.

You GAVE him the car - 3 years later (not 3 weeks later or even 3 months later) he gave it away. He hasn't even got licence and is unlikely to get it together to get one. His exGF has probably been his taxi driver for the last 3 years

Your brother sounds all round super annoying, but seriously just let this go.

3 years later though op !! and you said yourself it was a shitty little runaround. The maintenance of the car was probably costing . If you love it so much why give it away especially someone you consider a cf? . I actually think it isn’t that cf , you gave it him and he’s had it 3 years and he’s given it away . So you’ve not given it him you’ve lent him the car . Lesson learned ask for it back if you love it ! .

Your dad bought you a car, you didn’t see the value in it so gave it away. You now complain that your brother has done the same. He will no doubt be complaining that his soon to be ex-gf has given it to someone else.

You both sound over privileged tbf

Look, your dad doesn’t speak to him and yet he is living in a “family owned” flat. Your mum tells you he has sold the car to his girlfriend but won’t let you tell him you know. You are “forced” to buy him lunch when you meet.

Your whole family is dysfunctional, not just him. He might be the missing stair, but you are all tiptoeing around him (and probably loads of other things as well).

Yabu. You gave it to him, he didn't drive, he was unlikely to learn given he can't keep the same job or gf for any length of time. If youd wanted it back as it would have been useful for you, there has been plenty of opportunity to ask given he hasn't been using it

I think you have to write off the cost and leave him to it. But make sure you consider things very carefully before you do anything for him again - I think probably anyone would have seen that you wouldn't see the car again!

You know what he's like so why are you surprised?

Learn from it

Just to be clear for everyone who hasn’t RTFT, I asked my father before giving it to my brother. I could have kept it as a second car or sold it but I genuinely just thought as I loved it and it meant a lot to me as my first car and as a gift from my father, I would pass it to my brother. This doesn’t mean I am happy with someone I am not close to (his now ex, who is perfectly nice etc and as I say has put up with a lot) now just being given it. I think it would have been nice if he had had a discussion with me to ask if I wanted it back, as he clearly doesn’t want it! I would have wanted it back, yes.

my parents are divorced, my father has had enough of his behaviour and my mother enables him (and my other brothers) horribly. I’ve posted about it before under a different username but everyone got to live rent free and then at a reduced rent whilst I always had to pay full price as I was “doing better” despite us all having the same start in life.

re the always paying, this is the sort of thing that happens and it’s very awkward to break the dynamic. Either:

1. we arrange to do something and on the way there he says “by the way I don’t have any money”.
2. most recent example is this: he says let’s take the children for lunch I get to the place and order for them and for me he arrives, orders nothing and comments 4 times on how amazing my food looks. I tell him after 4th time to get what I’m having then. He says “I don’t want to spend any money because I’m getting a crown put in this afternoon and that’s expensive” and looks at me expectantly. I feel embarrassed and say he can go and order the salad I’m having and I will pay. He goes and orders a completely different, far more expensive dish with a drink and then wants a coffee too.

it’s not the money it’s the principle.

She’s probably either paid him some money for it, or he owed money and given her the car instead, or the car was costing him money (parking permit, MOT, insurance) and he wanted rid.

He is showing you that he obviously didn’t value the car in any way. Of course that is upsetting when it was a gift and you were trying to do something nice for him. Learn the lesson and put some boundaries up - see him for coffee not lunch (and he can buy his own), don’t give him stuff, stop listening to your DM complaining about his behaviour.

He says “I don’t want to spend any money because I’m getting a crown put in this afternoon and that’s expensive” and looks at me expectantly

”Oh that’s a shame, this salad is delicious”. And look back at him expectantly. He is the one creating the embarrassment here, not you.

It’s been 3 years you have another better car that you was given for free, you both sound a bit entitled.

And no you don’t need to have a licence to have a car registered in your name.

After 3 years this wouldn’t be something that would piss me off, and you don’t have to pay for his lunches, sounds like your family just like moaning about each other.

@Changechangychange

that’s very good advice!

@Hertsgirl10

could you please explain how I sound entitled?

Either way, your car appears to have been stolen. It belongs to you, you are presumably the registered owner and now a third party is in possession of it. You should ask for it back or ask for payment. It might well have been sold.

Whether or not the circumstances are unusual or whether or not people think you are entitled is neither here nor there, or whether or a Great Man has taken it from you (seems to be so many handmaidens on here now) it has been stolen.

@AchatAVendre

i have paid 8.49£ on a website to see the previous car owners and it changed hands in 2019. Won’t say to who so whether it’s in his name or his ex I don’t know but it’s not in mine! This does explain why he wanted to check with me though