AIBU to think that women’s rape crisis therapy should NOT be mixed-sex?

[IamSarah]

Women’s rape crisis therapy in Sussex is currently mixed-sex. The women's groups are open to anyone, male or female, who identify as a woman.

My women’s therapy group was attended by a male who presented outwardly as male.

I am making a legal challenge to the Sussex Rape Crisis centre claiming that women who have been raped or sexually abused should have the option of single-sex female only therapy IF they want it.

This would be in addition to the existing mixed-sex options.

If you are thinking YANBU then please visit my Twitter page which has more information on how you can help women like me secure female only therapy:

twitter.com/sarahsurviving

If you are thinking YABU please let me know how you would explain this to your daughter, mother or sister if she’d been raped?

YANBU. Disgusting that anyone thinks it's appropriate.

Yes men do get raped but I imagine they'll have different issues surrounding it to women. They don't need to worry about pregnancy for a start.

Single sex spaces for all concerned

YANBU to want there to be a service that provides a woman only service that also excludes trans women where not doing so excludes people. The law permits that. YABU if you are suing a particular centre who don't believe there is that need to force them to provide that service. Put the money into setting up a new one, not bankrupting a service that isn't ideal and clearly excludes some women so there isn't anservice at all

YANBU at all. I’m so sorry you’re having to deal with this.

it’s a fucking disgrace.

YABU if you are suing a particular centre who don't believe there is that need to force them to provide that service. Put the money into setting up a new one

why the fuckity fuck should women have to self fund single sex rape centres? Are you for real?

'I was was asked directly to speak about my abuse and felt manipulated into talking about my sexual violence in front of a male to 'be kind' despite every instinct telling me not to. ' - dear god, I'm so so sorry that you were made to do that, on top of the horrors that brought you there, it made me cry hot tears of rage just to read that

Just made another donation, anonymously, as I'm a coward, unlike you, Sarah, a true female warrior!

Thanks @jimboandthejetset

Yes this is the letter from my RC centre to the EHRC. It's frankly insulting to trans survivors.

It's like they are suggesting the input from trans women makes the group more exciting and edgy.

There should be men's survivor groups and trans people's survivor groups. The male Sarah is referring to had both those options. Women should have single sex services too. Are you seriously saying women who are traumatised by male violence should have to accept males in their group or get no service?

The simple fact is that if you allow any man into these groups on no more than his say so, then you clearly, CLEARLY allow men to enter these groups to get a sexual power trip. There is no way for the facilitator to identify and remove these men, as the facilitator cannot know their inner motivations, and neither can the women survivors be sure that a male in their group is not there for sexual kicks.

This is a blatantly unacceptable situation and the fact that it is being discussed at all show just how deeply held is the belief that women should put themselves aside to accommodate others.

Quite, as well as the TW who like to participate in menopause boards....

YAdamnNBU

Wishing you strength in your legal challenge 🌻

It’s very offensive, I agree.

And this is shockingly naive. Its saying that men who enjoy sexual violence/ violent sexual fantasies, will choose NOT to attend these groups! Of course there will be men who will do this! If you were a rapist / wanna be rapist, if you are a sexual voyeur, why on earth wouldn't you?! You do realise that there are parts of the internet where men love posting stuff they have secretly filmed, their partners sleeping, hidden cameras in bathrooms and changing rooms! Imagine how much kudos you can get in your ' dark community' for posting a secret recording of women survivors speaking at a rape support meeting! People need to stop being so bloody naive.

And as ' gender expression does not need to match gender identity' they don't even need to make any effort to 'unmale' themselves to go to these groups!

I wouldn't be able to go to one of those groups. And crucially I wouldn't be able to explain why or say why. So I would just disappear and not go back. I wonder how many people are in that situation, uncounted, unknown. There's no way of telling. You would just be excluded from the service.

Speaking of non single sex provision. I was in an eating disorders unit. It was for adults but also catered for those who were 16-17. Usually it was all women but on some occasions there were men patients. One of them slept with one of the women patients who was in the 16-17 bracket. I know it's technically legal but I don't think it's OK. One of the guys used to piss in the sink in the laundry room when the other toilets were locked. No girls did this. It does introduce issues.

More than that though, I had an issue with there being male bank staff. These men you didn't know, they would turn up, often they would be very tall, 6 foot 6, often didn't speak very good English, they would be sitting outside of your room while you were meant to sleep, or on occasion sitting within arm's length, you're in bed, in your pyjamas. I have never been in pyjamas in front of a man before (outside of when I was a child). Or slept in bed with a man in the room. I was so so uncomfortable with it and when I raised it I was treated like I was unreasonable and the head of the place got angry that I was criticising 'his staff' (I think he said how dare you say that about 'my staff'). He had never met these people as far as I'm aware. One of them told me he was only there because his mum worked on staff allocation for bank staff and 'ot him the job' and that he was a 'bad boy' (he literally said that). When my friend came to visit he made her feel massively uncomfortable standing outside of the visiting room directly opposite and she said he was just staring at her. Men don't understand how intimidating it is. I am not comfortable AT ALL being in my pyjamas in front of men. It makes me feel sick and vulnerable and I hate it. Often I would have to pretend to be asleep. I have never, ever slept as badly in my life as I did in there. It was months of terrible sleep which I think massively impacted my behaviour. I felt like a different person (not in a good way). I just wanted to be able to sleep and when I came home the first thing I did is try to go to sleep even though it was the day. I was really grateful for the help I received there, massively so, but the male bank staff was a big issue and I felt unsafe a lot of the time (not in the day and not when I was dressed).

Sorry I went off on a tangent. I think my point is that people are vulnerable in these groups. Well, my point is that single sex spaces need protecting.

Thank you for doing this. I have donated and I stand with you.

It's like it is a story from a dystopian novel or some "backward" nation.

But no, it's the UK in 2022😱

I know. I’m sick of this shit. It’s putting women back decades.

Rape Crisis makes this point very clearly.

'Research conducted by the Women’s Resource Centre found that women who had used women-only services greatly valued this support. An independent poll of 1,000 women across the UK found that 97% of those interviewed thought a female rape victim should have the choice of accessing a women-only support service.'

rapecrisis.org.uk/about-us/why-women-girls/#!

'Of sexual offences recorded by the police in the year ending March 2020, the victim was female in 84% of cases' (www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/crimeandjustice/articles/sexualoffencesvictimcharacteristicsenglandandwales/march2020)

You and Brighton's Rape Survivors Network - we don't think there's any need for women-only service.

So those 97% of women who think women should have access to women-only services (btw, wtf is wrong with the other 3%?) can just set up these services, again?
Because women have had to set up services for abused and raped women once already, that was the achievement of the second wave feminists, you're suggesting that now they've been taken over by men we should just roll over and accept it? Really?

These services are now government funded. Women are also tax payers, and voters, and deserve a fair treatment from government supported charities.

This charity insists that males 'add value' to women's rape counselling groups. Could you perhaps explain to us what that value is?

You didn't go off on a tangnet skybluee. You make some really valid points.

Thank you for sharing this skybluee - people should know what it is like for women. I'm so sorry that you had this experience, it sounds awful, and to have your views dismissed like that is just horrendous.

There isn't a service for women if it isn't single sex.

The frustrating thing about gender activists removing single sex provision is that it doesn't even help trans women whose pattern of experience and injury is different and needs specialist care.

I know of at least one rape crisis centre set up and established by women, which has added single sex male services, mixed services and specialist services for trans and non binary clients and still the gender activists want the single sex female provision shut down. They are notably quieter on the single sex male provision.

Don't kid yourself this is about equality, its about removing sex specific spaces from women even where the justification is overwhelming. I'm sick of victims of male abuse and violence being told to "reframe their trauma" to accommodate the desire of some men to be rape counselors and here first hand accounts from rape and abuse victims.

Any properly qualified (and motivated) counselor will tell you that the service only works if the client feels safe with the counselor and that the priority is the client needs, even if that means changing counselor. More to the point, trans women and men I know from pre the GRA are not wanting this, its entirely ideological.

YADNBU Sarah you amazing woman

and as for the “ooooh why don’t you set to your own single sex service if you think need one so much” crowd. Women did that!! We already fucking did that! Where do you think rape crisis services came from in the first place??

TRA agenda is very clear, no women single sex spaces ever anywhere for any reason! If a new single sex service was set up for women they’d be all over it straight away, demanding TW be let in, threatening & intimidating trustees, staff, funders & local cllrs. As far as they are concerned there is no justification for ever keeping them out of woman’s spaces

YANBU @IamSarah.💐

YANBU

I wish I could donate but can only wish you plenty of luck for the times ahead. You rock, thank you

YANBU, of course! Thank you for fighting this after everything you’ve already fought

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