To think being a SAHM/housewife is not the same as someone claiming benefits?

[Jajana]

Was chatting to my sister and was talking about how my MIL is a housewife (sorry not sure if that’s the correct term). She said that being a SAHM/housewife is no different to someone claiming benefits and would rather claim benefits than rely on someone for an income!

Bearing in mind, FIL runs a very successful business and all of the money MIL receives is from private funds - not through the state.

Am i being reasonable to think being a SAHM/housewife isn’t the same as claiming benefits?

It is dismissive.

@hihellohihello

The same applies to wm when you say they aren't doing the same.

Both in terms of generalisation, vacuums and dismissiveness

@Topgub
I have said (repeatedly) that I believe working and stay at home parents to be equals.
If you really can't see that your dismissal of a person's work (in this case putting in extra hours with children at home) is very hurtful and divisive, then there's nothing more I can say.

Actually, I think it is really important for parents to know the minutiae of their kids' lives. Knowing all of those little intimate details of your child's life is immensely important imo for them to feel secure and loved and for you to build a close relationship with them. I am astonished that any parent would suggest that knowing the small details of a child's life - their likes and dislikes, their interests, their worries and cares, their friendships etc - isn't an important part of being a parent, let alone a SAHP.

And as a parent with a very demanding job, I make damn sure that I do know those details. As do the vast majority of WOHMs that I know. Dads are a more mixed bag, and therein lies the problem. Some men, whether their wives work or not, never bother to get to know their kids because they don't actually believe that parenting is their responsibility.

And I have said the same.

Equal but different.

@Topgub but you are saying the WOHP is superior, that it is the superior choice in all situations.

Actually, I think it is really important for parents to know the minutiae of their kids' lives. Knowing all of those little intimate details of your child's life is immensely important imo for them to feel secure and loved and for you to build a close relationship with them. I am astonished that any parent would suggest that knowing the small details of a child's life - their likes and dislikes, their interests, their worries and cares, their friendships etc - isn't an important part of being a parent, let alone a SAHP.

And as a parent with a very demanding job, I make damn sure that I do know those details. As do the vast majority of WOHMs that I know. Dads are a more mixed bag, and therein lies the problem. Some men, whether their wives work or not, never bother to get to know their kids because they don't actually believe that parenting is their responsibility.

@Muffinsorcrumpets

And if you cant see how you're contradicting yourself then nothing more for me to say either.

You're diminishing the wp role as much as you think I'm diminishing the sahm role.

@Muffinsorcrumpets

And if you cant see how you're contradicting yourself then nothing more for me to say either.

You're diminishing the wp role as much as you think I'm diminishing the sahm role.

I think you're actually making a argument against working parents here Mumwantingtogetitright? You won't, you can't have as intimate a knowledge of every tiny detail that happens during your child's day if you're away from them all day. If you think all these details are so important and necessary to be an effective parent then I don't understand why you think it's okay to miss them.

Obviously I'm not talking about the broader brushstrokes here, interests, friends etc. A good parent should know these things. But if you don't think the nanny or parent who feeds a child lunch won't have a better feel for what the child likes to eat at lunchtime (and this can change often) then you're mistaken.

How exactly am I contradicting myself @Topgub?

Muffinsorcrumpets · 01/05/2022 11:05
Yes, you just use sitters.co.uk. You can always find a sitter. I find it odd that there is excuse after excuse as to why you couldn't possibly work. Of course you could, it's shockingly easy.”

if you’re happy to leave your children with a different stranger each time, that’s a fair point. We weren’t. Each to their own I guess.

You're quoting the wrong person there @MrsSkylerWhite.

Sorry, just copied and pasted as it appeared.

You said a wm does everything a sahm does, as well as working. You are basically claiming superiority for wm as they're contributing financially as well as doing everything else. You are ignoring the extra hours of work that a sahm puts in at home.

With school aged children often a working parent is doing everything else at home too. Often what actually happens is they simply sacrifice all their own leisure time to fit in these things in the evenings and on weekends. Plenty of SAHM of school aged children have a decent amount of leisure time - the ones I know spend a chunk of the time from 9-3 engaged in hobbies, volunteering, walking the dog, exercising etc. I know few who are spending the 30 hours a week their child is in school on housework & life admin.

I didn't say that MrsSkylerWhite. I think I quoted the first part of it to say it's not shockingly easy for some.

I'm not sure I can be arsed explaining it again @Muffinsorcrumpets but ill give it a go

You clearly think those extra hours (that not every sahm does and not every wm misses) are vitally important. That they give the sahm a parenting edge. Dare I say it make them the better parent

But you're also saying they're not important. Certainly not to how equal a parent your oh is. And you don't want to admit you think they do make the sahm the better parent.

As a wm I feed my kids lunch. I know what foods they like, what they dont like. I know what they like to do. I know their friends. I know them inside out.

What possible difference could extra direct parenting hours make to that?

You clearly think those extra hours (that not every sahm does and not every wm misses) are vitally important. That they give the sahm a parenting edge. Dare I say it make them the better parent

I neither think nor said that, Topgup.

This is your own imagining. I don't know if it stems from insecurity or from a lack of insight or from poor listening skills, but you're simply wrong.

It is very hard to have a constructive discussion with someone who believes they know what you think before you say anything, and who simply won't listen to what you're saying.

To be clear:
I DO NOT THINK BEING A SAHP MAKES SOMEONE A BETTER PARENT.
Neither do I think being a working parent makes someone a better parent.

I have a many friends who work full-time in roles and have nannies from 730 to 730 and a couple of nights a week. The nanny does all the child-related tasks - homework, clubs , washing , cooking for kids and family. Parents don't really see the kids in the week. It works for them - but for many families would chose not to live like that and in those cases the direct parenting hours make a big difference.

@Muffinsorcrumpets

I don't have any insecurities or poor listening skills. Or lack of insight.

I've asked you to explain what difference the extra hours some sahm do makes to parenting, why it matters so much those hours are acknowledged as being valuable and more.

You cant.

Maybe its your explanations at fault

Families/people are all different and have different skills and you would think that a fairer society would value both. I would hope that society starts to value caring responsibilities more - whether they are looking after kids or older people (whether stay at home parent, carer or nanny or child care worker).

Convo goes like this.

Being a sahm makes no difference to parenting. A wm can do everything a sahm does.

Omg how dare you diminish and devalue my role!!! A wm cannot possibly do what a sahm does. They aren't doing the same hours direct parenting!!

No, they're not but they're still as good a parent.

Well, yes, I never said a sahm was a better parent but you saying they're the same devalues my role!

How?! If you agree both are equal parents how can that possibly devalue your role

Gets annoyed cause cant answer and starts getting personal.

Till the end of tiiiiimmmmmeee

@atotalshambles

I value caring roles.

I do lots of them.

I also value them enough to make sure my oh does his equal share of direct hours too.

Maybe I am bad at explaining, I don't know. I'm certainly having trouble explaining my point to you, Topgub.

You said
"I've asked you to explain what difference the extra hours some sahm do makes to parenting, why it matters so much those hours are acknowledged as being valuable and more."

Again here, there seems to be misunderstanding.
I've said sahms typically work more hours physically minding young children than do wm.
Nowhere have I said this makes them more of a parent.
Yes, I would like it acknowledged that this work is valuable. All people who work, in whatever capacity, whether paid or not, like to think their work has value.
Again, I do not think, and have never said, that these hours have more value than working outside the home.

@Muffinsorcrumpets

No its not about working outside the home or not. I never said it was.

Its about the insistence that those extra hours are meaningful and deserve value on their own but also that they dont make any difference to the quality of parenting.

Thats the contradiction I'm not getting.

And I probably never will because I dont agree its true.

I dont value the sahm role. I dont think being a wm is better but I do think you can be a wm and achieve what sahms do.

Sahms obviously dont. They wouldn't get so annoyed by my view otherwise.

They think you need to be a sahm to meet the kids needs and be valued

You're seeing contradictions that aren't there as I've already explained.

My problem with your position, Topgub, is that you have made it abundantly clear now that you don't think the extra hours sahms do in the home should be valued on a par with the hours wm do outside the home. Those extra hours are useless, because I could parent equally well without them. (And yes I could, but someone has to mind the children.)

You dismiss the work I choose to do while you do salaried work. You don't think my role as a sahm is valid or meaningful.

Obviously I disagree.