To think being a SAHM/housewife is not the same as someone claiming benefits?

[Jajana]

Was chatting to my sister and was talking about how my MIL is a housewife (sorry not sure if that’s the correct term). She said that being a SAHM/housewife is no different to someone claiming benefits and would rather claim benefits than rely on someone for an income!

Bearing in mind, FIL runs a very successful business and all of the money MIL receives is from private funds - not through the state.

Am i being reasonable to think being a SAHM/housewife isn’t the same as claiming benefits?

Agree with @atotalshambles .

depending on skills, different people are better at different things. My dad’s from abroad and finds english hard, so him helping with homework was harder. My sahp mum had time to do early educational stuff outside school which really benefitted me and it would be hard to find tutors to do (projects based on museum trips, puzzles, late night revision help). Not everyone has that skill and if my mum found english hard, perhaps it would have been better to have a tutor. Same with music or cooking or sewing. Sometimes external childcare can be better for children, sometimes sahp can do it better.

Depends on what skills/type of care people value - just like how people wish to spend leisure time: some do sport; some do hobby; some travel.

@Muffinsorcrumpets

You agree that you could parent as equally well without those extra hours but then also disagree that means the sahm role doesn't have added value but don't see the contradiction.

Ok

I agree Namenic - I think that everyone has different skills and need to make their own decisions for their own circumstances. My friend, who outsources all the childcare in the week , does it because it suits her skills and what she enjoys. I think it we acknowledge both working and non-working parents - both contribute in different ways.

You are (again) failing to acknowledge that many or most dual working households with small children need to outsource childminders or other help Topgub. This is the work that sahps usually do themselves.

What I would say, if I 'm being brutally honest, is that most of young children's life experience happens between the hours of say 7am (or whenever they wake up) and 7/8 pm. The daytime hours are when they are absorbing the world - learning, exploring, socialising, communicating - everything basically. They are like sponges and the rate of learning and development in this phase is astonishing.

Now children will obviously learn and absorb in the mother's / father's absence. But some women will always believe that they want to be influential and directive in that 'absorbing.' They want to be a part of their child's rapid development in their most active hours. They don't want to leave this crucial time to a third party, basically. For some women, not being with your baby / young child can feel as if it goes against every instinct in you body and it's overwhelming. Trying to deny that instinct can make you depressed and / or physically ill.

I'm sorry if this offends anyone and I'm not suggesting for one minute that children can't learn in other settings, but fundamentally, this is why some women feel it's vital for them to be the one with their babies / children in the daytimes and in the greatest. 'window of opportunity" if you can call it that. It's not just 'childcare.' It's so much more than that and it's something they don't want to outsource. It's as simple as that.

Hiever, I totally understand that many women get so bored being around children that they wouldn't stimulate them anyway. That's fine and if that's the case, far better to admit it and seek an alternative, rather than plod on and make yourself ill.

And I also recognise that many women who would love to SAH don't have the option to. This is the reality of the cost of living today. But they are no less great mums and they are doing the best they can.

Finally, no mum is perfect. Children just accept their parents for who they are - working all hours, part/time or none- and hopefully its enough. We can all only do our best according to our personality types and the financial context we are in.

@Muffinsorcrumpets

Again, I'm not.

I'm aware sahm do extra hours direct parenting. I've said it multiple times.

And again, for the hundredth time, I dont think it achieves anything a wm doesn't.

I dont think 'outsourced' childcare providers become the child's parent. I dont think they have parental responsibility or are raising the child.

I think its beneficial to have lots of help raising children. Teachers, extra curriculum club leaders, family, friends. All great added value. But not parents.

Sahm have this help too. Or at least id hope they do.

So we're still stuck at the contradiction of sahm thinking they do more and that more matters and also thinking it doesn't matter because wp are equal parents.

🤯

With school aged children often a working parent is doing everything else at home too. Often what actually happens is they simply sacrifice all their own leisure time to fit in these things in the evenings and on weekends. Plenty of SAHM of school aged children have a decent amount of leisure time - the ones I know spend a chunk of the time from 9-3 engaged in hobbies, volunteering, walking the dog, exercising etc. I know few who are spending the 30 hours a week their child is in school on housework & life admin.

But this depends entirely on the family. What needs the children have. A large percentage of children have additional needs and there is associated admin and research that goes into accommodating those needs which the SAHP often takes on. Added to this why are leisure pursuits seen as less worthy than paid employment? They often contribute to society just as much. Volunteers are an unpaid workforce, keeping fit and healthy puts less strain on the NHS and sets a good example to others who see people improving their health in this way. Of course for some their leisure and work pursuits coincide - they get paid for something they would do as a hobby. But why does that make it more worthy or sacrificial? Of course WOHPs do make sacrifices but so do SAHPs - I think there are always sacrifices to make in life where we have to prioritise.

@mintlimelemon

Your options are women love their kids so much they can't possibly be partied from them without becoming ill and can't risk their care to anyone else (not even the dad ) because they wouldn't do it right

Or

Are incapable of mothering due to boredom and would be better off out the road?

Is there no scope for a 3rd option of can cope with looking after kids absolutely fine but can also cope with not doing it 24/7 and know that balance is important?

Sahm have this help too. Or at least id hope they do.

I didn't have much. No appropriate childcare. My child needed 1 to 1 when small. Parents live nearly 4 hours drive away. Friends had busy lives themselves.

Who suggested outsourced childcare becomes the child's parent???

I give up @Topgub, I really do 😅

@Muffinsorcrumpets

You didn't and I didn't say you did

I was just explaining why I dont think it matters if those hours are 'outsourced' done by a sahm or done by both parents or a grandparent.

@hihellohihello

That's a shame. The lack of appropriate services for kids with additional needs is shocking

I'm beginning to really appreciate how much internalised guilt has affected women. We are so used to receiving criticism for everything we do that we become overly defensive over our choices. As a result we stop seeing alternative choices as valid and see them somehow as a threat which invalidates our own choices.

Never mind that they are often not even free choices.

This needs to stop.

I don't think it matters either Topgub.
But I hope you'll acknowledge that it's a job that needs to be done and it's an extra one that sahps do and that working parents don't (during their working hours). I've never said that it's a job that makes you a better parent, but it is a job and often a challenging one.

The lack of appropriate services for kids with additional needs is shocking

I don't know what would've been appropriate. My D.C. really benefitted from 1 to 1 from someone that knew them inside out and who was also educated in early years education, linguistics, child development and psychology (part of my degree). So I think I made the right choice. It was a successful choice anyway. My D.C. has had several university offers, one of which is unconditional.

@Muffinsorcrumpets

Children of a certain age need childcare, yes. That is a job that needs to be done.

But no, I don't acknowledge its a job that wp don't do because some do.

You seem completely blinkered by your notion of what a wp is.

I also don't see why its so important that its acknowledged when it doesn't make a difference.

I also don't see why its so important that its acknowledged when it doesn't make a difference.

I believe I did make a difference during those extra hours I spent.

@hihellohihello

Not every child with additional needs has you as a parent.

@hihellohihello

Excellent. I'm glad.

Do you think kids of wp are missing out on that difference?

What difference could I make to my kids by not working?

Not every child with additional needs has you as a parent

No, but some will have parents with skills equally suited to caring for them individually in such an specialised way.

You just can't generalise or theorise. Some might benefit more from a group setting. Equally needs develop and change over time.

@@hihellohihello

I dont really know what point you're making. Some parents will some won't. Some will have the skills and still won't be able to do it.

Services should be better.

I'm glad you feel you made a difference by being a sahm. I'm sure you were great.

In a like for like setting I dont think it makes that much of a difference overall.

I said childcare is a job that a wp doesn't usually do during their working hours, Topgub. I can't see how you can dispute that.

I also don't see why its so important that its acknowledged when it doesn't make a difference.
Ah well, I tried to explain, I can't do any more now Topgub. It does make a difference to the sahp to have their work acknowledged, believe me.

Topgub - yes women will find their own work/ life balance and this is obvious.

I was responding more to the point you were making which seemed to be that 'direct parenting' between say 5-8pm is no different to doing it all day every day. I think that's patently untrue, to be perfectly honest and anyone who is at home with kids 24/7 knows that an hour in the morning and a few hours in the evening are the tip of the iceberg.

I think being a SAHM suits women who have a certain kind of resilience. You have to create your own structure - it's not ready made for you in the way it is in most jobs (to some extent). You have to be outgoing and sociable and get out there and socialise with people and their children pretty much every day or you might go mental. You have to be creative and always thinking ahead of what next. You are constantly timed in to your baby - with NO break ever - and you are instinctively preempting what they will do or feel or need next. The day can be long and you have to have energy and a plan. You also have to just learn to accept that, at that point in time, you are on the child's schedule - not your own. You have to learn to let other stuff go and not get stressed about all the tasks you could once do so easily but now can't get to. Also, you know how much you've done in a day but nobody else will know. If you are the type if person whose identity needs external recognition and you need the satisfaction of seeing a 'job done', then being a SAHM is not for you. As I said, it takes a certain inner strength and patience because at times it can be overwhelming. It's not about a list of tasks that we all do to a greater or lesser extent. I would define the real 'work' of a SAHM as the simple fact of being there, as default - because that's what a lot of time as a SAHM is. - just being. You can't always be on a purposeful activity - it's precisely the stretches of time inbetween those activities that are the real work of being a SAHM.

Yes!
I had our first two children 16 years ago while doing a training contract and then went straight out to work. I missed a lot, a real lot, of their early years. Things were slightly more balanced when we had child number 3. I was successfully progressing in my career and was able to juggle my work part time for his first few years, baby, school aged children and my PhD. I loved the balance but holy heck, don’t those years fly by. I always felt like although I gave as much time and energy to the kids, it was never enough.

2 years ago we had a surprise baby and every single ounce of my being just needed to be with her. I think having 14 years difference between the older two children and the baby highlighted to me that the years just go too fast and despite everything I’ve ever done at work, I’d be replaced in a heartbeat. I also lost my mother during the pregnancy and just took a whole new outlook on life. No money could buy this time back, and quite frankly, I wanted to just live off my hard earned cash for a while, while enjoying a very simple, slow paced life. I’ve never been happier. My father is reeling that I’ve ‘chucked away’ a very successful legal career and wasted my education, that he did not pay for. My husband is so happy with this current set up and asks why I didn’t leave work sooner. He loves that I have time for him every evening instead of sitting and reading contracts or emails or my student's assignments. As a family, we genuinely have never felt so content and calm in life. I enjoy spending time with my little girl and collecting the older children from school. It’s amazing. I genuinely feel so much more fulfilled now than I ever did before.

I likely will return to work once our little one starts school. I’m actually considering a career change and to go into teaching primary level. If I had my time again, I would have been a stay at home mum for all our children. I know some people think this is ‘grim’ or whatever, but so what. You get one life so just do what you want to do in a way that suits your family and just be proud and confident in your decision. Some people love their career and some people love being at home. It’s not a competition and neither is better than the other.