To think being a SAHM/housewife is not the same as someone claiming benefits?

[Jajana]

Was chatting to my sister and was talking about how my MIL is a housewife (sorry not sure if that’s the correct term). She said that being a SAHM/housewife is no different to someone claiming benefits and would rather claim benefits than rely on someone for an income!

Bearing in mind, FIL runs a very successful business and all of the money MIL receives is from private funds - not through the state.

Am i being reasonable to think being a SAHM/housewife isn’t the same as claiming benefits?

@Muffinsorcrumpets

But you're the specialist? Because of those extra hours of physical parenting?

That very much reads like you think a wp couldn't advocate or manage a child with additional needs

No, I just said it would have been very difficult in my circumstances. I had to be on call to pick my child up from school when they couldn't cope. For a time my child only attended school part time. There were multiple meetings and provision to go through, understand and ensure it was adhered to, a codes of practice change, change in funding and legislation. I had to write reports and teach my child at home. There was also a potentially fraudulent misuse of my child's funding which had to be dealt with diplomatically but effectively.

I mean if you could do that whilst working in paid employment then hats off to you. However I couldn't.

Same for my ex. He doesn’t have to worry about childcare because I do it. So I get to claim his tax and he pays minimal maintenance yet I “facilitate” his job. I did so as w working single mum and when I was on benefits.

@Topgub - 1 specialised pcg role can be more beneficial when a child needs to see multiple medical specialists. Both parents could go to all appointments -but it is not always possible (depending on how understanding employers are). In such a case, rather than splitting and doing half appointments each, it may be beneficial for 1 parent to do all, then pass on knowledge to other parent over time. This is because the medical specialists may not be aware of what was said/recommended in other appts - so it can be good to have continuity.

i am currently pcg to a baby who I breastfeed. Would she be just as happy bottle fed by DH? - apart from maybe some benefit to immunity, she’d probably be just as happy. But - we’d spend longer washing bottles/sterilising and more money on formula (or time pumping). If I had big problems breast feeding with mastitis, pain, stress - on the whole she’d probably be better off formula fed - especially after 1st few weeks.

@Namenic that would fall under the carer role rather than the sahm I think.

We seem to have wandered off of sahm into parent carer to prove a point.

@Topgub Unless the SAHM is very wealthy and hires nannies (a minority) it is usually the case that SAHMs physically parent their young children more than WMs. It's the whole point of being a SAHP for many people, for a variety of reasons.

It's a difference, but it makes no difference if you see what I mean.

Where I am, 5 and 6 year olds are collected from school at 1.35pm. Ages 7 to 12/13 are collected at 2.35pm. It's still quite early when compared to 9 -5 working hours, though many parents return to full or part time work at this stage.

We seem to have wandered off of sahm into parent carer to prove a point.

🤷‍♀️

My lived experience does not to prove a point. I am just sharing my experiences. They are common to other people to. Perhaps you might get to know people's circumstances a bit better before you judge them. I don't share my struggles with a lot of people in real life, to do so would be disloyal to my D.C. and DH and thus I am judged for not working. And so the prejudice lives on...

Does not exist to prove a point.

@hihellohihello

I havent judged you.

Yes, I know being a carer is common.

I know lots of women are often trapped in the role too.

Your first comment about wp not being able to do it was fairly judgy too if you want to go down that road.

It's a difference, but it makes no difference if you see what I mean.

No. It doesn't make sense because you keep saying that its why sahm are doing more than wm.

@Topgub - I assume you mean the medical problems part rather than the breastfeeding? Or both? The line between caring and ‘normal’ parenting is not always clear (eg developmental and educational need - of differing severities).

Then there is the skills of the parent - I take care of all kids med appts because I am much more capable (due to studying biology at uni). I also can explain things to the kids more easily, so take on more of early education - though DH helps them with his specialist subjects. We have our specialisms that play to our strengths - equal but different.

Also, sahm’s currently and in the past do also sometimes have more time to help elderly relatives - which is not often recognised in society.

Yes meant medical.

Sahms helping care for elderly relatives is not something I've experienced.

Very very few people care for elderly relatives.

And those that do are normally older.

There's a term and I can't remember it.

Older women caring for elderly relatives and young grandchildren

@Topgub

I'm really not sure what's not clear.

Example:
Mary, a single parent, is a SAHM to her one year old DC. She is with him 24/7.

Anne, a single parent, works as a lawyer 9-5 Monday to Friday. While she's working her one year old DC attends the local nursery. She is with DC all week except during her working hours.

Mary is physically minding her child for 40 hours more a week than Anne. She is doing the work that a childminder is doing for Anne's child during that time.

That's it. It doesn't make Mary a better, or a worse, parent. But it's also not true to say that they are choosing to parent in exactly the same way. It is not true to say (as you have) that Anne is doing everything that Mary is, plus working. Anne is not minding her DC for that 40 extra hours a week.

@Topgub
People are having children later. People are certainly caring for children and elderly parents at the same time nowadays. Maybe not babies so much, but primary aged children definitely.

@Topgub - v common in prev generations. DH grandma cared for her child, cooked for widowed BIL’s family, looked after MIL. Also common abroad. Not always a completely free choice.

it is not only regular care - but popping in on elderly neighbours, people who have gone into hospital. I believe this loss of informal care is one factor in the huge social care crisis we have. I also believe men should do it more often as well (like sahp). It may not be practical for both working parents to split this type of caring as hospital visits/appts may be hard to fit outside the working day (compared to sahp schedule)- but my hope is that more remote/flexi working will help.

Yes I had my ds at 38. Found my self managing his Sen diagnosis, my dm fight with cancer and my dgd end of life care. I could not have worked during that time if I wanted to.

Plenty of working parents care for elderly relatives, pop in to check on elderly neighbours etc. As an employer, I have very commonly been asked to make adjustments to facilitate this, and I'm currently dealing with this for my own elderly relatives. And yes, wfh will make that easier, but informal elderly care has been happening around work for much longer than that. And yes, it is still mostly women who seem to take this on, regardless of working status. It would be nice to see more men stepping up.

I think the point that @Topgub was making is that it's rarely necessary for the parents of parents of very young children to need care because it would be relatively unusual for people to need extensive care at that stage in life...according to ONS, the average age of first time grandparents was 63 in 2018, which is still working age for most people. In my experience, most people tend to be closer to 80ish when the need for care really starts to kick in, though obviously it is different for everyone and some people will need care throughout their lives, but again, that's when it tips over into being a carer rather than a SAHP, which is a very different thing. I think it's more common for normal elderly care to kick in when kids are during the teenage years or even later. Of course, some people will be involved in the care of elderly grandparents or other relatives as well, but in those cases, there are often other relatives who can help to share the load. And yes, naturally, as people start their own families at a later stage in their own lives, the need for care may increasingly coincide with those early childcare years but we aren't really there yet.

As for breastfeeding...I did it until dd was nearly 3 despite going back to work full time. Caring for a sick or disabled child is different, although again, I have managed WOHPs who manage to juggle the two.

I think a lot of people forget this. I see a lot of "me being a SAHP allows my husband to do his job" but it's often the same for separated parents. It's usually the woman that does most of the child rearing, either having to rely fully on benefits or a low paid job topped up by benefits like I do. And there's no reward for the single mum. I still facilitate my ex husband's work but it doesn't benefit me!

I don't feel guilty one jot about getting top up benefits.

She said that being a SAHM/housewife is no different to someone claiming benefits and would rather claim benefits than rely on someone for an income!

Well I would imagine that the DH of MIL is happy with the arrangement.
However the rest of UK taxpayers might not all be happy to be paying someone (they most likely don't know) who is not working but we have no say.

So that is quite a difference imv.

This is a bit embarrassing. I am a WOHP, and I obviously know which foods my different children like. This is fairly basic parenting knowledge.

If your husband doesn't know this, it is not because he is a WOHP.

@Mumwantingtogetitright - the point is that the sahp role is flexible and means that a person has more time/energy to do the informal caring. I’m not denying that working people do this as well - but they just have less capacity and overall fewer people do this currently than in the past (which is contributing to social care problems). Though I am glad that women have more choice now and are not forced to do these things which they may not have wanted to do.

breastfeeding - if you work shifts, have a long commute or inadequate facilities to pump and store milk, then it’s can make it v difficult. Not all jobs are the same. I used to do a PT job than required more energy, and had less flexibility than my current FT job. With some jobs you cannot do school pick up.

DH used to do pickups and drop offs from childminder on my working days. His HR said that other people just manage to split it. Well ok - but some jobs don’t have that flexibility. On those days often I would leave before the kids were up and return when they were in bed. Thankfully I career changed but not everyone has a good boss or flexible job. Extreme examples are military, oil rig, pilot, cabin crew, ship crew.

@HandScreen He doesn't know this sort of information because he mostly doesn't do dinners. It doesn't make him a bad or lesser dad. As I explained already upthread, there are other activities where he takes the lead and I don't participate much. We're a team - doing different things, but equals.

Sorry, but that's where we'll have to agree to disagree. I think not knowing basic stuff like this makes him a pretty crap parent. What if something happened to you? Not only would the children have to cope with the trauma of their main caregiver not being around, they would also have to adapt to being cared for by a parent who is apparently unfamiliar with the most basic aspects of looking after them.

I don't think that this is a SAHP/WOHP issue per se, as I'm sure that there are actually plenty of WOHPs with SAH partners who still choose to get involved in all aspects of caring for their kids. Personally, your particular set up would make me very anxious as I would be worried about responsibilities being divided to such an extent that one parent was so clueless about such basic things.

I disagree, you don't have to know all the minutiae of a child's life to be a good or equal parent, @Mumwantingtogetitright.
Surely that's the whole point? You can have different roles but it doesn't make you a worse parent. I can't believe I'm the one pointing this out as a sahm.
If something happened to me, my DH would do his very, very best to care for our children well. I know that. And knowing whether one of them prefers beans to peas right now is a very minor detail in the scheme of things.