To think being a SAHM/housewife is not the same as someone claiming benefits?

[Jajana]

Was chatting to my sister and was talking about how my MIL is a housewife (sorry not sure if that’s the correct term). She said that being a SAHM/housewife is no different to someone claiming benefits and would rather claim benefits than rely on someone for an income!

Bearing in mind, FIL runs a very successful business and all of the money MIL receives is from private funds - not through the state.

Am i being reasonable to think being a SAHM/housewife isn’t the same as claiming benefits?

Yes - ‘feminism is about having choice’ is the most superficial understanding of feminism. Of course feminism is about having choice, but as you say it’s also about recognising that our choices are not made in a vacuum, they are made in the context of a patriarchal society.

That’s not to say that any woman who decides to be a SAHM is a brainwashed idiot who’s enslaved to the patriarchy. But it’s quite likely that one or more of the following issues will have influenced her decision:

• the crippling cost of childcare which costs more than she could earn in paid work;
• the fact that the mental load of running a household falls to her anyway, and having paid work as well

@hihellohihello

I havent said anything about anyone being better or about blame.

Just asked why we dont hold men to the same standards as women. Why we let them off with absolving themselves of parenting because 'some women find it fulfilling'

Or why its always a coincidence that its better for the family for the woman to give up work.

The cost of childcare is definitely something in my mind, but honestly I just realised when I had my first that I really wanted to do the early years care myself. I didn’t want to go back to work yet.

I appreciate the risks and downsides of that but I also understand the benefits, for my personally, in terms of what I proporitise and want, and the idea I need to run that past some sort of committee for approval is ridiculous to me.

I do think affordable, more heavily subsidised childcare should be a feminist policy priority, but I don’t think I’d make use of it myself.

Sorry pressed send too soon

… and having paid work as well as running a household is too much for her;

• her husband/partner earns more than her;


• her husband/partner’s employer is unsympathetic to his childcare responsibilities;


• her own employer is unsympathetic to childcare responsibilities;


• her husband/partner wouldn’t dream of going part time;


• her husband/partner isn’t very interested in parenting.

And all of those issues stem from the fact we live in a patriarchal society.

I suspect you started it by supporting MIL or women in general who stay at home with a rich husband while judging those who stay at home without any husband.

Yep my thinking too

I've been

Full time worker

Self employed worker

Sahm

Full time student mum

Full time working single mum

Unemployed single mum

But I've experienced people looking down their noses for all but when I was a full time worker without dc!

I've certainly experienced people looking down their noses at me who were or had been sahm reliant on their partner/husband for money and possibly also the state too (tax credits and child benefits are certainly benefits as far as the tories are concerned! Anyone receiving these in their eyes is a scrounger too!)

A sahm/housewife whatever you wanna call it/it is are no better than someone claiming benefits. They're no worse either although I think it foolish to deliberately make yourself so vulnerable long term.

but the former is less of a trap than the latter.

How? They are both entrapping and they both leave the person without warnings or a private income of their own vulnerable

Just asked why we dont hold men to the same standards as women. Why we let them off with absolving themselves of parenting because 'some women find it fulfilling'

I think because we view life essentially from our own perspective. If we are happy with our own choices and find them fulfilling, no matter whether they fit in with a patriarchal agenda or not, we like to validate them and in turn feel validated by them. Putting yourself in the role of a victim is demeaning and exhausting. So we don't.

This is a good point.

So much assumption on here that everyone who works would be able to earn enough to be independent, should the relationship breakdown. It's like you earn healthily or you're a sahp and that's it.
The reality is there is a broad spectrum of earning potential for lots of reasons.

There are many women who actually enjoy staying at home, looking after children and running the household. They find it very fulfilling actually

Although I was pretty much left without an option to go out to work, having one of my children with quite severe LD, I found being a sahp a huge sense of achievement and I thoroughly enjoyed (most of) the time I spent with my children. I don't regret a moment of it. In fact some of my working friends found going out to work easier than looking after children. Horses for courses.

I'm afraid morally I agree with your SIL. A married/partnered women doesn't work she's a home maker. If a single mum doesn't work she's a scrounger. I can't abide double standards.

It's practical for many in the early childhood years, as long as it isn't a permanent job looking after DH supporting his career becomes your career.

I would never view a SAHM a scrounged because she claims benefits. I still don't think that being a SAHM is the same as claiming benefits

I totally agree that affordable childcare should be a feminist priority. I know you say that you personally don’t think you would have made use of it, but it is the case that in countries where childcare is heavily subsidised, a far greater proportion of mothers are in the workforce. Which strongly suggests that the cost of childcare is a huge influence on many women’s choices. Which in turn means it isn’t a free choice.

I’ve also noticed that all of my SAHM
friends, without exception, have taken up their child’s 15 free hours at nursery when their child turns 3. So their kids spend three hours every weekday at nursery. I have no problem with that whatsoever, but it does again suggest that cost of childcare has influenced their decision-making, rather than not wanting to use childcare.

It sounds like in your case it was genuinely what you wanted and that is great. But like I say, I just think it’s important to recognise that no choice is made in a vacuum. As women we make all our choices in the context of a patriarchal society that generally speaking does not have our best interests in mind.

I think a pp made a hugely valid point.

Women are on here saying how being a stay at home parent is hugely valuable. And so valuable to their husbands, who apparently, unlike the working mother, cannot possibly succeed in his career without a full time person at home.

But it’s not so valuable these husbands would ever deem to do it, irrelevant of how much each earned, it’s not so valuable that these men want to wash their own pants or wipe bums and runny noses if they can get someone else to do it.

These men aren’t saying oh darling this is such high value work, I wish I could be home cleaning it and looking after the kids, I’m going to rush home from work and do it all , it’s just so valuable.. here hand me that hoover.

Mostly the women get to do all this valuable work.

Funny that.

but it is the case that in countries where childcare is heavily subsidised, a far greater proportion of mothers are in the workforce

over eighty percent of mothers work in thr uk. I very much doubt you’d get much more of the other twenty percent in even if you offered it free.

My husband isn’t a cunt though.

All household stuff and childcare isn’t left down to me.

Because he’s an adult who lives in this house and also the other parent. So when he’s not working, he does his share of everything.

He’s not some big shot who thinks he’s all important though. I met a few of them in my time who wouldn’t lower themselves to cook the dinner when they get home.

Agree with the presenteeism culture. Pre-covid, many of the guys on my team would stay on at the office surfing the net and chatting long after they had finished their actual work. They fully admitted that it was so they could duck out of the evening/ bath/ bedtime routine. I’m sure all their wives believed they were doing super important work in the office and their efforts at home were facilitating that. Wonder what excuse they made when they were forced to work from home during covid?

These threads always end up in the same way, bashing the sahm as though they have done it with no understanding or choice and slating them for doing so.

I stayed at home because it suited us as a family, and all my friends have chosen to do what suited them without any of us judging each other for our choices. We have male friends who chose to do the childcare whilst their wives worked, other couples who both work, sahm with dh building businesses etc. and all did it through choice along with support from friends and family because that is what should happen.

dh doesn’t come home and expect to find me in kitten heel slippers with dinner bubbling in the oven as he’s not an arse, same as I don’t expect him to mow the lawn and other manly jobs. We are a team and work well together.

I had a well paid, valued career prior to dc but being home with them has been the most rewarding thing I’ve done and I feel blessed to have the choice.

"I do think affordable, more heavily subsidised childcare should be a feminist policy priority, but I don’t think I’d make use of it myself."

If you had very cheap childcare it would be difficult to justify not using it though. Where I live, the norm is for mothers to go back to work after 3 months when maternity pay drops and creches are cheap. It would take a lot of resolve for a mother to justify staying at home to herself and the father so there's a lot of pressure to go back at 3 months.

@HelloDaisy

Why did it suit your family for you to give up you your well paid career?

(Having said I'm out...)

Can I ask all those posters saying women should continue working, regardless: why can't a mother say she just wants to stay at home with her babies/pre-school children, because that is what she genuinely wants? If this is something that is financially viable for her family?
Why is that not an acceptable option to you? Why do you not see that as a valid life choice? Why do you not understand or accept that women have different feelings about this to you?

This

@Dillidilly

I dont think anyone has said that have they?

A mother can do what she likes

Personally I want my kids other parent to be equally as responsible for them and to share care.

I dont really understand the need to only look after kids? But if that's what they want. Up to them

Id be questioning why more men don't want the same though.

Maybe more men do want the same, I notice more men on the school run, flexible working, staying at home, taking up shared parental leave.

I think this is exactly what some posters have said. The comments asking other posters why their family circumstances stopped them from accessing childcare, etc.

@Dillidilly

A question isn't a statement.