To think being a SAHM/housewife is not the same as someone claiming benefits?

[Jajana]

Was chatting to my sister and was talking about how my MIL is a housewife (sorry not sure if that’s the correct term). She said that being a SAHM/housewife is no different to someone claiming benefits and would rather claim benefits than rely on someone for an income!

Bearing in mind, FIL runs a very successful business and all of the money MIL receives is from private funds - not through the state.

Am i being reasonable to think being a SAHM/housewife isn’t the same as claiming benefits?

OK lol

This.

I realise everybodies situation is different. However from my perspective, both make you vulnerable. Because you are dependant on somebody else to financially support you.

‘Can I ask all those posters saying women should continue working, regardless: why can't a mother say she just wants to stay at home with her babies/pre-school children, because that is what she genuinely wants? If this is something that is financially viable for her family?’

I 100% agree with this. I don’t think anyone apart from a complete arsehole would take issue with this at all. It’s completely fine to say you wish to be with your children and don’t want to WOH. I know several people who’ve done this. They completely own their choice and I totally respect this as they respect my choice to work. They don’t pretend they couldn’t work due to their DH being such a big shot because if their DH was a big shot and they wanted to work, the money was there to buy help.

All of the SAHM I know were in relatively junior positions e.g PA’s and administrators. Although if they wished, they could claim they gave up a ‘career in the city’, that would be a stretch and the reality was they were more than happy to give it all up which is fine. It’s their life, we don’t all have to do the same things. Nobody should care what other people do unless it impacts them - it’s the dressing it all up that rankles.

@Dillidilly

Why are you so upset with the idea that some women might think women giving up work isn't a good idea?

Lots think working as a mum isn't a good idea

The most recent figures I saw (pre-covid) were that less than 75% of mothers (not over 80%) with children under 18 were in the workforce - and it’s well known that covid was a disaster for mothers’ employment. Also, that percentage will be much lower for the mothers of nursery age children.

As for whether you’d get the out of work percentage into paid work if childcare were free, Save the Children reckons that if childcare were affordable, there are nearly 900,000 mothers who would rather be in some form of paid work. That’s around 50% of SAHMs. And unsurprisingly the percentage who’d rather be in paid work is even higher in deprived areas - if you’ve made your choice because your husband earns £200,000 pa and you simply don’t need to work and would rather be with your kids, that’s one thing; but if you’ve made your choice because using childcare and working will leave you substantially worse off than staying at home, that’s another.

Again, all I’m saying is that the ‘feminism is about choice’ narrative is superficial, because no choice is made in a vacuum. All our choices are made in the context of our patriarchal society. Unaffordable childcare is a feature of our patriarchal society.

It works in multiple ways though, to be clear I am absolutely not SAHM-bashing. I’ve been in paid work since becoming a mother and have made choices that have been influenced by patriarchal norms. For example, I wanted to go back four days a week after my first, but I decided to go back FT because I was the main earner by a long way and I believed (entirely correctly) that if, as a new mother, I went back to the organisation PT, I would be seen as uncommitted, ‘on the mummy track’ and passed over for opportunities and promotions. And what could be more patriarchal and misogynistic than the belief that a mother who works PT is a waste of professional space? My point is, my choice to go back FT wasn’t a free one. It was influenced by patriarchy and sexism. I saw the light pretty soon after and moved to a new job.

I just think it is important that all women think hard about what influences their choices.

If you re-read my posts, you will see that I've supported women doing either/both of these things.
As indeed I've done myself.

Nobody should care what other people do unless it impacts them - it’s the dressing it all up that rankles.

Have you thought why women might dress it up?

It's a defence mechanism. They don't want to be accused of not achieving anything or being lazy, or being a drain on the state etc etc. All things I've heard. So I had a high powered job, I actually do everything in the house, organising the family and am vital to my husband's success, my husband earns loads and pays loads of tax which is only possible because of me so not a drain on the state.

@Dillidilly

That wasn't what I asked though.

Because I wanted to really. I wanted to be at home caring for my dc myself rather than paying somebody else to do it. It was completely my choice, and supported by dh. I have never regretted it nor do I feel that I have sacrificed my career for his.

dh set up a business at the same time and me being at home allowed him the time to invest in setting it up and working all hours as needed so it worked for us both. He did the work but I was listed as a co owner from the beginning.

We are a team and all decisions are worked through together. Now dc are older I help with the business, manage staff, do all the paperwork and own 50%.

And why shouldn’t I make that choice?

Yes, I actually think a lot of fathers (at least ones I know) do want to take a much more active role in their children’s lives and our patriarchal culture (just for example, our rotten paternity leave) holds them back.

How can I put this clearly?

I would no more support women saying all other women should stay at home for their children...
...than I would support women saying all other women should work regardless.

Life is far more nuanced than your posts suggest.

@HelloDaisy

So not best for your family then?

Just what you wanted to do?

@MissChanandlerBong80

Patriarchal culture that lots of women chose to support and reinforce

The only answer she can give other than “it’s what I personally wanted” is that she thinks it is better for her children, which would understandably be taken as a slight on working mothers. What are you digging for here?

@DaffodilsandCoffee

I'm not digging for anything.

Its said a lot

I often wonder what people actually mean by it. Especially when they've said they earned well in a good career so its not financially motivated.

If she'd have said because it was better for the children id have also asked why.

I cant think of many circumstances it would be true but im sure there are some.

Patriarchal culture that lots of women chose to support and reinforce

That's not the way patriarchy works. Only the people in power (men) have any real choice. The rest are brainwashed and pressured into conforming.

I think it just means that the parents in question value the benefits of having a parent stay home (and there’s undoubtedly benefits) over the benefits of having that parent work, which also undoubtedly exist. It depends what the alternative option was and what they value more/less. There’s no objective right answer.

@hihellohihello

Nah.

Women are not powerless victims. They have some choice.

As DaffodilsandCoffee has said, what answer are you looking for?

It wasn’t just me being selfish and simply doing what I wanted, but what we thought would be best for us both and our dc.

Life is all about choice and dh and I decided that me being at home with dc whilst he worked lots of hours setting up a new business was the best choice for us. It worked and we are all happy and haven’t hurt other people on the way.

It wouldn’t occur to me to challenge others for the choices they make on their own life path…

@DaffodilsandCoffee

Yeah but why always the woman? Doesn't the man at home provide the same benefits?

(I dont agree there are benefits to the kids of a sahm, in general)

Women are not powerless victims. They have some choice

Indeed! So why question and cross examine those that are perfectly happy with the choices they made?

@HelloDaisy

I've maybe got the wrong idea of the point of these threads then

@hihellohihello

Isnt that the point of the thread/discussion?

But do you actually want women to have a choice?

Because if you did, you would accept that they can make legitimate choices which differ from yours.