To ask what you think of this situation and who's being unreasonable?

[HillProp]

John is married to Lisa who he shares DC with. He also shares DC with Kate (so Lisa's DSC). Lisa works part time (although not massively part time to be fair!) due to young DC so tends to take on more childcare for all of the children than John.

Whenever there is an argument between John and Lisa, one of Lisa's responses is that John do X Y or Z for his own kids from now on. For example: 'You can cook for your own kid from now on' meaning her DSC. She will say this even if DSC are there.

Lisa's DSC have told their Mum, Kate, about this who has now told John she's annoyed about this and thinks it's cruel of Lisa. DSC generally like Lisa and they get on well typically.

Lisa feels like John leaves a lot of his children's care to her and this is her retaliation when things blow up between them although it isn't always actually anything to do with the DC but this is her way of 'getting to him', by refusing to do anything for his older DC.

Who's unreasonable?

Lisa for using DSCs care as a means to punish John?

Or Kate for having a go at John about this comment?

Or options 3.. John for putting too much onto Lisa in relation to his older DC?

And in what world is pulling your weight domestically called 'helping'? In an entrenchedly sexist one that expects women to act as everyone else's servants, taking primary responsibility for all domestic work and childcare, all the time, while also holding down paid work. You've really revealed your prejudice there.

1000000%!!!

I absolutely fucking despise this phrase when applied to a man fulfilling his role as a parent and doing household tasks. Why isn't the woman "helping" him out, instead?

It reminds me of a time one of my friends' partners said to her in an argument he was leaving her but not to worry as he would "help out where he could" with their DC. How lovely and charitable of him! 😡

It is depressing how this is framed as a Lisa or Kate problem. Because it’s somehow unreasonable to expect ‘John to somehow work full time and care for his kids’ (an actual comment made on this thread)

I agree. I mean, I seem to have managed to work FT and look after my kids for many years. Maybe it somehow becomes impossible if you have a penis..... 🤔

I really don’t think it is harmful for children to see the women around them making it clear, and explicitly saying, that their father should look after them, cook them dinner and so on.

the other women around them should really respond to this with ‘yes. He should be cooking for you. Why isn’t he?’

Exactly.

In this scenario, I suspect the OP Kate probably works FT too. Yet somehow it’s another woman’s job to care for her children and not doing it on behalf of their father is somehow using it as a weapon.

Quite.

If this is really the sort of stuff that Lisa is saying in front of her DSC, singling them out that way, that is emotionally abusive.

Yes, John needs to pull his weight more but it's Lisa involving the DSC. She clearly resents having a SC or she wouldn't be singling them out with her comments.

Kate should not send her DC to that household until they have sorted out their issues and apologized to the child.

Lisa shouldn't be saying this stuff in front of the children - it's not their fault they exist, and that their parents are no longer together.

I have no problem with Kate raising that the children were upset with John.

John needs to pull his finger out and better parent HIS child when he has custody. Because what someone says in the midst of an argument, is what they think about at other times. Lisa feels taken advantage of, and like she does more than her fair share of the parenting. Although I'd suspect this isn't JUST about the DSC, but more about ALL the children, even the ones they share.

*For example: 'You can cook for your own kid from now on' meaning her DSC. She will say this even if DSC are there.

Lisa's DSC have told their Mum, Kate, about this who has now told John she's annoyed about this and thinks it's cruel of Lisa. DSC generally like Lisa and they get on well typically.*

what exactly did Kate say? Because I’d be pissed that my DC heard that comment, but annoyed at John (and not Lisa) for putting our DC in that position.

I think it’s healthy for DC to hear, ‘well why don’t you cook then’ but the pointed othering of them sounds hurtful.

John is the arse here btw, he should be caring for all of his children and moreso when his DC are home.

It is not emotionally abusive to say to a man - in front of his children - that actually if your efforts are not good enough for him he can cook for his children himself. It’s positively good for the children to hear this. The expectation should be that their father cares for them in practical and boring ways.

People are so desperate to paint stepmothers as abusive. It’s hyperbolic.

Children should see women standing up to men and telling them to do the boring day to day care of their own children. Hiding that away (especially when there is already a conflict the kids are aware of - they’ve apparently reported to their mother this comes up in arguments every time) is just reinforcing that it’s woman’s job to cook/clean/etc and also to smooth over conflicts.

Given the response is that he should look after his own children, it’s likely that John is complaining that his servant isn’t doing it to his liking. In front of his children. Seeing him criticise her care of them repeatedly and her brushing it all under the carpet lest their father’s behaviour harm them is not good for children.

Yes, John needs to pull his weight more but it's Lisa involving the DSC. She clearly resents having a SC or she wouldn't be singling them out with her comments.

If his behaviour is always like this, then inevitably she’s not going to be happy as a stepmum. I don’t think she resents the children themselves, but she resents the situation of being with a lazy man who has no respect for her, and doing everything for his older children. Any woman with any self respect wouldn’t enjoy that.

Incidentally a friend of mine did this with her SC to get back at dad who was useless.

He then started taking his kids (her DC) out for dinner because ‘you’ll feed ours but not mine’ which in his eyes justified leaving the joint DC.

The house was like a battle ground with adults using DC as weapons and all the DC caught in the crossfire.
I swear they spent more time tit for tat fighting than enjoying the DC.

it’s not healthy for any of the kids, Lisa’s comments and actions aren’t great but John has caused the DC to be treated this way.

He then started taking his kids (her DC) out for dinner because ‘you’ll feed ours but not mine’ which in his eyes justified leaving the joint DC.

Wow, what a shit dad.

If his behaviour is always like this, then inevitably she’s not going to be happy as a stepmum. I don’t think she resents the children themselves, but she resents the situation of being with a lazy man who has no respect for her, and doing everything for his older children. Any woman with any self respect wouldn’t enjoy that.

This. It baffles me when people say "she clearly resents being a step parent" in situations where the dad is making it shit for her, as if that's some kind of shocking criticism. Of course you'll end up resenting it.

She clearly resents having a SC or she wouldn't be singling them out with her comments.

Or..... She clearly resents having to do everything for her SC whilst their useless father doesn't bother parenting them.

@SoggyPaper

Oh. Of course it's healthy for children to hear from a woman that a man needs to take responsibility but it is abusive if the way it is phrased singles out one child. It depends on how the conversation went.

Scenario A:
John: Lisa, DSC doesn't like the dinner you cooked.
Lisa: Fine. You cook for DSC from now on and I will only cook for my own children.

That's emotionally abusive of done in front of the DSC.

Scenario B:
John: Lisa, DSC doesn't like the dinner you cooked.
Lisa: Fine. You cook for everybody from now on then. I can't do it all myself.

Not abusive but rather Lisa telling John he needs to pull his weight more.

The difference between the two is whether the DSC was singled out from the rest of the children or not.

People are desperate to paint SMs a resentful of the children and desperate to push them out (or ‘other’ them as is the social science bingo card word for this thread).

She couldn’t possibly be resentful of a situation where she’s become domestic drudge and scapegoat to a man who is supposed to care about her.

It’s also noteworthy that people are telling a man to look after or care for his own children is apparently spiteful and nasty. And it’s dreadful for the children to witness their father being told that he should be doing ordinary care for them.

children are just women’s work by default. And they’ll be harmed by any inclination that all women are not there to look after them.

@SoggyPaper

You've nailed it for me on this thread. 👏🏻
Couldn't agree more with everything you've said.

Overall, the most sensible advice is for women to not have children with a man who already has some from a previous relationship. Most of the time it seems to end in conflict for everyone and damaged children.

Yea he is a shit dad, I don’t think anything otherwise.

TBH, the signs were there before my DF had kids with him, I cannot see what benefit he brings to any of the DC.

DF feels trapped because she doesn’t want her DC having a SM like her (because dad won’t protect them), BUT personally I think her DC are also suffering from having a shit dad, at least the SC get a reprieve with mum.

Anyway, that’s all off-tangent. I was just making the point that these tit4tat battles rarely end well.

Best option is to avoid the resentment in the first place(and I don’t mean put up shut up) but will a man like John ever pull his weight? 😢

But the father has singled out the SC and made the SM in the wrong for not cooking the right thing for her.

The SC knows that she’s being singled out by her father and is not the OP’s child. It’s not abusive for her to see that the response is ‘well if what I’ve made isn’t good enough for your daughter [the one you’re telling me off because I didn’t cater for in the way she wanted] then you can cook for your own children’.

The daughter knows her father is doing this because she is his child and not the stepmother’s. He’s doing the othering. Or is that OK because it looks like othering to the SC’s advantage?

What is actually abusive to both the children and the woman is the father using them in this way. And it’s all too common in stepfamilies.

It can be fine when the parent of both children understand their own responsibilities and don't have unreasonable expectations of their partner.

maybe he can't be there to actually feed his kids, we don't know his work schedule or their home life, but he can do other stuff.

Sorry, what have I just read? John can be absolved of responsibility to feed his own kids because of his work schedule and this makes Lisa responsible for both their joint children and John’s children from another relationship.

Does Lisa’s schedule ever get so busy she can’t feed her kids? What happens then? They just don’t get fed?

It can be fine when the parent of both children understand their own responsibilities and don't have unreasonable expectations of their partner.

Absolutely. Parent your own child, pull your weight, don't expect your partner to do more than you do. It's not hard. It's what I do with regard to my eldest DC (who isn't my partner's), it's what he does with regard to his 2 eldest DC (who aren't mine), and when it comes to our joint DC we both muck in.

The other important fact that makes the ‘don’t let on to the SC that they are only the father’s children’ is that they’ve then reported the situation to their other parent.

Their father is singling them out as especially in need of catering to (SC doesn’t like the dinner you’ve made - which is just rude of him to say if nothing else). There’s already an imbalance and divide there. Dad will criticise on your behalf and make it clear to the staff that this isn’t good enough. And they can complain to mum too that anyone has said dad should actually cook for them (since he’s the one who isn’t happy with the menu).

john is a man. The women around him are responsible for facilitating his contact with his children. He doesn’t need to make choices that fit around his responsibilities. He’s outsourced them.

🙄🙄🙄