Part 2 -AIBU to wonder why so many people assume Johnny Depp is the good guy and Amber Heard is the villain

[StormzyinaTCup]

Just thought I would start a follow on thread for anyone interested in the trial. I have kept it in AIBU so that it is easier for previous posters from Part 1 to find.
We are halfway through and have heard JD's testimony so next week we will hear from AH.

@MarieIVanArkleStinks

Some of those words you are using for women are pretty archaic. There are also words like fuckboy and playboy and dog etc used for promiscuous men.

And words like wanker, jackass, pig, creep, asshole, are applied only to men.

I have no idea what his female partners thought of his use of the word cunt. We saw in texts he used it with them in normal conversation as a term of endearment. I don't know if they liked that or hated it. People use terminology in different ways and literature has often come up with very floral and descriptive ways of talking about people. I would hate it but that doesn't mean everyone would. Someone might call their husband a jackass or asshole or dickhead or wanker and do it endearingly as well.

I just disagree that his use of a Monty python reference and the word cunt in private texts is the smoking gun in this case. Context matters.

I personally don't use of the words so it isn't that I think they are all fine or not fine. I would never be with someone who talked that way and I would never call a partner names of any kind - endearingly or not. But I get that other people do.

It feels to me he made a huge mistake leaving Vanessa Paradis and a happy and more conventional family home life for AH - and has been self medicating his sadness and regret at that bad decision ever since (along with the damage from his childhood abuse by his mother, and then grief at her passing)

I agree. But apparently he found their relationship "boring" at the end and resorted to drugs to help him cope. I dont like that at all- reminds me of how Brad Pitt said being married to Jennifer Aniston was what caused him to smoke weed excessively. NO dude- its not her fault, it was YOUR decision to abuse drugs, take some fcking responsibility. Its not the woman's fault if you are chasing after much younger women and doing drugs.

Apparently? Where did you read that?

www.news24.com/channel/johnny-depp-was-bored-with-vanessa-20120622

So if that’s the case , one he would not be clever enough to lie and two it does not make him a wife beater .

plus I have seen some very threatening , swearing profanities about male politicians on this site ( some quite shocking in my eyes ) but it does not mean the posters would attack them in real life .

I think it’s important to separate certain behaviours and not assume they lead to physical violence in every case .

this is a civil case so the burden of proof is less. It’s up to the jury to look very carefully at their evidence and decide who they believe. I look forward to her cross examination because I think she might trip herself up .

@Unsure33

plus I have seen some very threatening , swearing profanities about male politicians on this site ( some quite shocking in my eyes ) but it does not mean the posters would attack them in real life .

I agree - yesterday on MN I said "I would cheerfully shoot" anyone who used a leaf blower... actually, I really wouldn't.

@ParisNoir
It's a world most of us will never know but it must be so weird going from a vaguely normal home life to the kind of media circus and excitement of shooting Pirates / going to premieres etc.

Much of ordinary domestic home life is pretty conventional and dull compared to that. For most of us that's just a life we grow to value for all the good stuff connected to it. And because we don't have much experience of the other to compare it with.

But I can imagine the disconnect between the adrenaline highs of being a Hollywood star like JD and then going back to a normal home life must be a fairly big challenge.

Most definitely. For someone who has always abused drugs/alcohol, I suspect he is the kind of person who thrives on the highs and lows. Taking drugs is very much a thrill seeking rollercoaster ride and I can see how that kind of person would find it very hard to just settle down to every day life without such extremes. I suspect he is re-creating the chaos of his childhood- the constant moving, the never knowing when he'd get whacked or verbally attacked by his mother etc... We tend to choose what we are familiar with, rather than what is always good for us.

But I can imagine the disconnect between the adrenaline highs of being a Hollywood star like JD and then going back to a normal home life must be a fairly big challenge.

He is by all accounts a very private person and doesn't like 'celebrity' it's something that he has talked about since way back. I don't think he does drugs for the 'high' (and I believe he referred to that at some point in his testimony).

@StormzyinaTCup - I didn't mean he does drugs for the high - more to block it out - but I meant the adrenaline high of being the lead role in Pirates / being centre of attention on red carpet etc.

Even more so if he's naturally shy.

@CorsicaDreaming Ah yes, I see where you are coming from👍

Poor ickle shy boy

Isn't doing drugs to get high essentially the same as doing drugs to block things out, altering one's reality is a form of blocking out one's reality

After spending much of today listening to recordings and looking at evidence exhibits and whatnot, I have shifted from it was mutual to Amber is the perpetrator and Johnny is the victim.

That is separate from Johnny being an alcoholic and addict who has trashed rooms at times when his sobriety has lapsed. There were stretches of this relationship that occured during his sobriety (he was sober for over a one year stretch at one point) and the abuse continued - and very one directional.

Additionally, in the recordings where they talk about their issues and their fights and relationship problems, Amber does not bring up his drug / alcohol use - her main issue with him that gets raised repeatedly is that he leaves / walks away / goes to another room or house when the arguments escalate. She takes that as him being a coward and refusing to fight for the marriage. She feels abandoned and stressed and panicky when he leaves when the issue isn't resolved. He tells her he won't stay as she gets physically violent and she agrees she does and says she just loses it if he tries to leave. She tries every tactic to get him to change his response of walking away during the arguments and fights. She pleads, she cries, she taunts, she mocks, she belittles him, she professes her love, she begs him to fight for the marriage by staying and fighting with her. She promises to try to not get physical but says she can only try and can't promise she won't.

mobile.twitter.com/bybyeblackbird/status/1285735012135034893

Watch Part 1 and 2 of this brief video. This is a good example of a common scenario for them - he tries to get away, she follows and then gets physically aggressive when he won't let her be with him.

In this one - He goes into the bathroom to get away. She gets upset and knocks on the door repeatedly. He opens it but doesn't let her in, they are both now pushing on the door from each side. Her toes get scraped by the door and she screams and he lets go of the door. She kicks the door and it hits him in the head. Then she comes in and punches him in the face.

I think there is no smoking gun - you have to decide whether the witnesses are credible, and some of that is gut level and I am terrible at that. In the final analysis, you can only believe what's been independently corroborated. So medical records, police records and consistency may be what it has to be decided on. t
Depp's team looked very excited at Heard's mention of Kate Moss, so I am interested to see where that goes.

Yes I agree the shy thing does seem a bit of a stretch 🤣

Some of these videos are interesting. He brings clips and pictures and evidence into his videos. He also has some long videos where you can listen to the recordings

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCg0C-N_MPYYOXyF4T3jMxNQ

This page has all the documents and evidence from 2016 on.

deppdive.net/docs.html

@Midlifemusings - yes I've listened to those too, and agree your assessment of how their relationship worked - that AH was the aggressor and he attempted to retreat but that just wound her up more, to the point of physical violence.

Which all actually fits with BPD and the irrational fear of rejection / abandonment.

Possibly BPD. She almost seems sociopathic to me. But labelling is always a tricky one, I think.

I have tried to base my opinion on independently corroborated evidence or what has come out of their own mouths prior to the trials.

I don't doubt he was a nightmare to live with. But if his drinking and drug taking was such an issue, why was AH drinking around him too? She says herself she would pour him a glass of wine when he got home. And they did drugs together. The recorded conversations don't allude to his additions causing the level of anguish she's now reporting.

I think she liked him addicted as she wanted to feel needed by him. It was definitely as dysfunctional relationship and they both triggered each other. He probably retreated into a drug-addled haze to cope with the constant barrage from her. That then made her even more needy and paranoid he was going to leave her.

I realise most of that is speculation on my part.

The crux is that it comes down to what people think she means by abuse. We know verbal and emotional abuse took place. But she has claimed physical and sexual abuse, not even a little bit in retaliation such as the incident when he pushed the bathroom door closed and it caught her toes. But significant horrific systematic and regular abuse. And that's what legally needs proving in this court case.

Depp says: 'Don't tell what it feels like to be punched.'

Heard replies: 'You've been in a lot of fights, you've been around a long time. You didn't get punched. You got hit. I'm sorry I hit you like this, I didn't punch you. I did not fu*ing deck you. I fuing was hitting you. I don't know what the motion of my actual hand was. You're fine. I did not hurt you, I did not punch you, I was hitting you. I'm not sitting here bit*ing about.

'You're a fu**ng baby,' Heard said.

Shouting, Heard continues: 'You are such a baby! Grow the f**k up Johnny'.

When Depp says it was a physical fight, Heard says: 'I did start a physical fight.'

Depp replies: 'I got the f**k out of there'.

Heard (sarcastically): 'You are admirable.

In a separate recording Heard called him a 'f piece of sh*t.'

She says: 'Why don't you go f yourself. Go suck your own d. Stingy old piece of s*.'

up until the sexual assaults claims, I was completely it’s a toxic relationship which would be very difficult to totally unpick. He is now accused of horrific sexual assaults, there can be no “there as bad as each other”. That ship has sailed.

Amber Heard chose to go to the UK trial, every single day. She didn't have to be there except for her testifying. JD tried to stop that from happening. Neither did she have to stand on the front steps of the court and make a statement in public when JDs team were still giving their closing statement.
Make of it what you will
I wouldn't want to face my abuser every day if I didn't need to.

She’s coming across as more and more awful everytime isn’t she. But JD is the one who is going to lose out here. Even tho she is the abuser in this. When people hear he’s a ‘wife beater’ whether or not it’s true - it’s game over for him. He’s not been an angel in this - but she is defo the main abuser in this - she pushed and pushed and pushed. Probably thought she would get more famous/richer by marrying him. She thought wrong 🤷🏻‍♀️. She’s done real victims of DV a disservice.