Part 2 -AIBU to wonder why so many people assume Johnny Depp is the good guy and Amber Heard is the villain

[StormzyinaTCup]

Just thought I would start a follow on thread for anyone interested in the trial. I have kept it in AIBU so that it is easier for previous posters from Part 1 to find.
We are halfway through and have heard JD's testimony so next week we will hear from AH.

Not necessarily. As I've pointed out to numerous others, she stated she was assaulted with a bottle and THOUGHT to herself I hope this isn't a broken bottle. It's possible to receive such assaults without having internal bleeding and quite frankly, after such an assault the absolute last thing you want to expose that area to anyone. In my experience I pretty much wanted to pretend that there was absolutely nothing below my waist at all, was in complete shock and literally went home and to bed and didn't speak of it for another 5 years.

@Laaaaslalala I do understand what you are saying in both your posts and I would hate for you to think that I didn’t. I am so sorry that happened to you💐.

@Trixiefirecracker
I've read your post three times... are you saying that the odd Anglo Saxon expletive is worse (or even equal) to domestic abuse?

That is frankly bizarre.

Not sure if this has been mentioned but there is an audio recording of the morning after the "bottle incident" which can not be used in court because it features other people so it's not admissable.

It has several people (including a doctor and Amber's nurse) discussing Johnny's missing finger and trying to find it.

None of them are aware they are being recorded.

Not once do they mention any injuries visible on Amber. They are trying to get Amber out of the house because in their opinion she is "combative" and Amber keeps saying she's sorry for doing it.
She also keeps repeating that she does not want to leave. She is adamant.

I don't think anyone would miss the injuries that Amber should have sustained based on her testimony.
She was "choked, punched repeatedly, bashed into walls, dragged over glass and sexually assaulted".

The only "witness" she is saying can confirm her story and injuries is Jerry Judge and he has passed away.

I am struggling to believe her and I am a child abuse and sexual assault survivor with Borderline Personality Disorder.

I'm not saying everyone is the same as me, but when I was in court for my sexual assault, I was petrified. I couldn't look at the jury. I could barely get my words out and in the end I was moved to another room for video testimony. I couldn't be as confident with the courtroom as she is.

@CorsicaDreaming no, I am not saying that. I am saying they have both done really shitty things.

@Trixiefirecracker - but on the DP side you've got "calling your ex wife really shifty names"

on the AH side a whole list of really bad, abusive and gaslighting behaviour.

That really doesn't make them as bad as each other.

It seems she can also now add perjury to the list given the accusations she makes of really serious DV but then photos of her in the public domain the next day (or so) without any sign of injury, which doesn't add up at all to me.

And the lack of presenting contemporary records from health professionals in the trial. If she'd had her head rammed into a wall multiple times and then sought medical help (which she says she did) you'd expect a head X Ray and medical notes as evidence from the complainant. I can understand she may not have corroborating evidence for every incident, but to have nothing seems v odd (apart from what the therapist says AH told her, which to me isn't much better than hearsay)

So they are only as bad as each other if you believe AH's personal testimony - if you need more evidence than that they are not.

Regardless if he makes fairly foul comments in texts to his own friends, which he expected to be private and just be read by that one person. A huge number of divorcing people do that, it's nothing like full on domestic abuse.

@CorsicaDreaming but that was kind of my point. ..it was in reply to a whole heap of posts from another poster further up the thread who just kept repeating ‘but JD called his ex-wife a withering cunt’. I think you are arguing the same point as me but just haven’t read the whole thread? But it’s a moot point because we have no real idea about who is lying about what.

Have you never heard a man referred to as a dick or a dick head or any other derogatory term reducing him to his sexual organs?

I find it hard to believe that so many have never heard derogatory words used for men. Not even after a break up. Never heard of men being called assholes or dicks or dickheads. Read threads on here of people describing men behaving badly and those words get used. I have also seen references to balls (testicles) also used in derogatory ways like hang him up by his balls or he only has big balls until another man is in the room.

I think people talking as thought they have only ever heard derogatory words used for women and never men are not being honest. I can't imagine many people have never heard the word dick being used in a derogatory manner.

So weird you are so keen to downplay this.
i would say dickhead is on a par with bitch. I’ve never heard a man talked off in the same way as Depps messages, largely because the act of having sex is used as a weapon against women right from the start. She’s a whore/ a tart etc. Men don’t get that, they get ‘player’ etc.
Depp goes beyond she’s a bitch to she’s a cum swilling whore . Don’t be disingenuous about this, you don’t need to defend him.

Fair enough. I've read a lot of the thread, but it's massive and yes I've probably missed chunks!

So we are both on Team WTAF 😆

I find it hard to believe that so many have never heard derogatory words used for men.

That's plainly not the case. This is an interesting aside, nothing to do with Deep vs. Heard, but it does tell us a great deal about the broader society surrounding it, the discourses of which are clearly feeding into perception of it.

What I and others have suggested isn't that derogatory words don't exist for both sexes. They plainly do. The issue is that words used for female anatomy words are viewed as far more taboo and profane than those used for men.

Dick/prick are probably on a par with twat. They're mild profanities and sort of funny. Compare 'cunt'. How many times have you heard someone say 'I never use that word!' or awful situations arise when 'cunt' is the only expletive deemed low enough to use? It's largely seen as one of the most taboo profanities in our language.

Now compare language used to describe a promiscuous person (note, also, the original etymology of some of those words). Women: slut, whore, harlot, slag, Jezebel, tart, slapper, trollop, floozy, tramp, scrubber. Those are just the ones that immediately spring to mind.

Comparative adjectives for a man? Cad, rake, player, stud. There are significantly fewer, but it's the tone that is so noteworthy here. There are a lot more censorious, derisory connotations associated with the former list than the latter.

Obviously, people can only use what language is available and understood in those contexts to start with. But the fact that the above is true - and it is true, there are serious studies into it by linguists such as Deborah Cameron - says all you need to know about the way in which men and women are viewed in society in general.

Yes, his language is fucking appalling but what does that actually mean? That he is guilty of everything else? Because I have a really fucking potty mouth but I don’t smack my partners up.

Prick is not mild. It’s rated as very severe by Ofcom and on a par with Cunt. You might view it as such but you are not the arbiter of swear word ranking! 😂 Prick, Knob, Dickhead and Cock are all classed as the strongest expletives/swear words.

On the ‘c’ bomb I have never used it myself. I have used most other words in the swear dictionary on occasion but that word is my redline. I have been on MN for many years and the ‘c’ word is used very regularly these days, by women against other women (often when referring to the ‘other woman’). Neither is on in my book. Does not equal, by default, that you are an abuser though.

Yes, his language is fucking appalling but what does that actually mean?

for me it just means I’m stunned women are still in love with him, turning up to support him, making TikTok’s in support of him rather than just watching the case.

I'm not an expert on linguistics. Others are: Cameron, Beezer, Baxter, Jeperson, McDowell, McRae, Shaw. It's they who are the experts on taboo language, and whose findings I am referring to about a hierarchy of profanity associated with genitalia in particular. Not me.

@StormzyinaTCup, you've amply illustrated why 'cunt' is viewed as so taboo. I'm making no claims whatsoever as to whether this definitively 'proves' Depp is an abuser: what I am suggesting is that there are interesting perceptions behind sexist language that are embedded within the very fabric of our society. And yes, I also see that word used often on this set, but not in the context of everyday discourse.

Site - sorry, not 'set'.

Yes, his language is fucking appalling but what does that actually mean?

Probably means he's a bit inarticulate and thick.

I personally have no doubt that it means that the user is so familiar with using derogatory terminology about women that they have to become really creative with their word choice in order to get the gratification that comes along with using the normal derogatory terms to describe the women in their life.

@MarieIVanArkleStinks - it really doesn't mean he's inarticulate and thick. Cum swilling whore is actually quite poetic in my book - almost Shakespearean. In fact I wouldn't be surprised if it isn't derived from Shakespeare...

And for liberal use of cunt I refer you to Chaucer, the grandfather of English literature.

And for scatalogical humour, Aristophanes. Ancient Greek.

It's the "fucking wanker" brigade who use fuck as verb, adjective, and noun every other word to give their brains time to catch up that are inarticulate and thick.

My DH once shouted shitty cuntflaps at my Mum’s cat. In front of my mum. It had just unprovoked dug its claws into his hand after he'd been stroking it for five minutes. Not my DH's finest hour but that is his swear phrase of choice. He is the kindest most genial man you could meet.

JD is coming across to me as incredibly thick. Ive also noticed in interviews over the years how inarticulate, boring and rambling he is without a script. Theres just no sparkle or wit there at all. He just comes across to me like some intoxicated boring uncle at a wedding

Fortunately that’s just your own personal opinion and not an absolute fact.

…and that you should never be on a jury.

historyofenglishpodcast.com/2019/09/25/episode-129-chaucers-vulgar-tongue-explicit-language/

Coming across as your rambling boring uncle (who would never hurt a fly) is actually quite a master stroke in this libel case though...

I'd imagine he is taking a lot of meds to suppress his anxiety (and long term alcohol and drug use is never a great mix for keeping your brain sharp).

It feels to me he made a huge mistake leaving Vanessa Paradis and a happy and more conventional family home life for AH - and has been self medicating his sadness and regret at that bad decision ever since (along with the damage from his childhood abuse by his mother, and then grief at her passing).