Part 2 -AIBU to wonder why so many people assume Johnny Depp is the good guy and Amber Heard is the villain

[StormzyinaTCup]

Just thought I would start a follow on thread for anyone interested in the trial. I have kept it in AIBU so that it is easier for previous posters from Part 1 to find.
We are halfway through and have heard JD's testimony so next week we will hear from AH.

Women are killed in larger numbers and in some ways it might be better if we didn't lump all domestic violence from emotional abuse to financial control to aggression to murder together as one entity of domestic violence as it seems to muddy the waters and bring out a sense of competition. The fact that women are murdered doesn't take away from the experience of abuse victims who aren't murdered and we don't need to negate those experiences or always need to reference murder in a discussion about abuse.

I apologise if it seemed like that. My intention was to point to the difference in strength which when you're talking about aggression and control, is a factor. I agree there are cases when that is not the defining factor though and I'm not trying to minimise that.

The Disney thing is debatable either way. I don't know. I have limited sympathy if the reports about his general behaviour are true and it sounds like things were souring with them anyway.

I don’t think it’s really a win/loose situation, they both are not coming across great and have been vile to each other in the past. I do get why we wants it known what she is actually like because it doesn’t seem fair all the blame was put on him.

I think they are both as bad as one another! Both clearly have anger issues. Not to mention Alcohol and drug abuse. But I don’t believe for one minute that Johnny depp deserves to have his career destroyed because he was in a volatile relationship. His exes have all said he was never Violent towards them.

What has become clear is AH is a manipulative, lying sociopath and a lot of JD’s behaviours are sue to the mental abuse he was subjected to.

They both are so obviously screwed up that they each have to be quite screwed up to get together with other one. That's my starting position.

I would not know this case was happening if it weren't talked about on MN. On MN, if sexual abuse &/or violence is implied, the woman is always a poor victim. Maybe she coincidentally has a few personality flaws, but she's overwhelmingly blameless in every way. Meantime and the man is pure evil because ... he has a Y chromosome. That's the overwhelming rule of thumb on MN. I'm not following the case, only following some of these threads. The fact that JD is getting any sympathy on MN tells me that AH must be coming across incredibly badly, so much so that even the fiercest Y-chromosome haters are struggling to see her as the righteous poor wee victim. That is amazing.

I don't think they are as bad as each other is genuinely think she is dangerous. There has been a fascinating observation of her mimicking his fashion after he has worn something. At first people thought it was a bit of an odd thing but it became to obvious to the point it could not be an accident.

She lies with an ease that is not normal.

I think it's clear that they were abusive to each other and we know that she was violent to him. So I can see how galling to Depp it must be that he is labelled a wife beater and she gets a pass as being a victim. I can understand why he wants to set the record straight that he too was a victim of domestic violence, I'm just not sure these court cases were the best way to do it.

I’ve found a subreddit which has a really anti Depp thread which was quite refreshing after TikTok , Facebook etc. links to a list of JDs problematic behaviour which was interesting - arrests etc pre the marriage. Apparently the text message about corpses was pre the split which I didn’t realise. Interesting to read different views anyway.
I’m leaning back to my original thinking

She has a ‘complex’ personality. The mimicking is certainly interesting (well I find it interesting) and can be seen not just in what she wears but in turning other peoples personal experiences into her own and then believes these to be her own lived experiences. It makes it very difficult under normal circumstances to see where the actual truth lies. There seems to be an element of this in some (not all) of her accusations, she says JD did/said x, y and z but then we see/hear evidence that shows that x, y and z is exactly what she did/said to him.

turning other peoples personal experiences into her own

If you're talking about stealing Kate James' (?) rape story can I reiterate that that's actually unfounded? In the UK judgement she was described as an 'unsatisfactory' witness with a likely grudge against Amber. Their stories were entirely different and Kate never read what Amber said so it's actually ridiculous that she claimed that.

If anyone knows otherwise then please let me know but I saw her testimony and she came across terribly. Also there are texts showing she and Depp met up for wine and to deal with Amber's "flabby ass". I can believe Amber wasn't a great person to be employed by but you would have thought this woman was being held hostage the way she was talking about it, instead of having chosen to take (and stay in) the job so she could have more time with her son . She seems vile tbh and couldn't get through her testimony without constant barbs.

It's hard to know where the truth lies. Definitely a lot of AH's behaviour has been utterly unforgivable but there's also witch hunt mentality going on.

With the make up palette, for example - people are taking it that the actual palette the lawyer held up is the one AH claimed she used during the relationship. But a brand was never named by the lawyer and it's obvious - to me anyway - that it was just being used as a prop to represent what any colour correcting palette would look like. If you look at it, it was a brand new palette.

When people overplay the little details as these big 'ah-ha!' moments, it takes away from the bigger ones.

So unless they act completely sanguine to an obvious abuser their stories and lived experience need to be discounted to make sure that a Y chromosome pays the price for all other Y chromosome carriers, bias much?

Huh?

Was Kate James the PA? I thought she had an axe to grind and came across a bit weird about Depp - going for wine etc when she was fired (?) and also couldn’t be specific about the abuse AH allegedly chucked at her, just generalisations about bad tempers and shouting.

A litigant meets with a disgruntled former employee, a future witness on his behalf, over a 'glass of purple' to 'fix' (Amber's) 'flabby ass'**
I know what I believe about that, and it's eff all to do with Y chromosomes.

a Depp-James text verified and admitted into evidence in the UK trial.

Right, I think I've worked out what you're saying. And no. I said what I meant, there's really no need to extrapolate from that but you do you. As far as I'm aware her claim about stealing the story was debunked, but obviously it's still being repeated along with BS like the makeup compact brand.

Yes, I noticed there was literally nothing specific in what she said.

Does anyone know the timing of the text about the 'spot of purple'? I actually thought that was just some casual thing after she was let go, but if that's in the context of her giving evidence, then wow.

I was in a LTR with a woman (same sex), mainly good but she was volatile (throwing things at me etc, demanding I stay and talk about arguments for hours and hours over and over) and the ending was an absolute mess. So much of what I'm hearing from this case has serious parallels of what inexperienced (apart from the huge amounts of money etc). I feel for Depp and just how truly awful it can be to be in those situations. Even a year later she is said to have been trying to send him love letters and birthday cards!

Heard is doing a terrible disservice to women who are in abusive relationships and are experiencing DV, she's mainly ruined her career with this as well as his so I do hope she is happy.

At least there is a famous man admitting to being abused which can only help open discussion for other men in the same situation. Men and women can be abusers

I've just come across this, it's basically the whole recorded conversation that we have heard snippets of in the court case (the 'I didn't punch you, I hit you' convo).

Its about an hour long so may be too long for some and I will attach a TRIGGER WARNING to it. I think it's an important listen for anyone who is interested in women on men abuse.

@CaffeineAndCrochet

Amber's lawyer said that this (what she was holding in her hand) was the make-up that Amber carried everyday in her purse while dating Johnny Depp. She says a couple times while pointing to the pallette - that this was what she used and she mixed these different colours to cover her bruises and cuts.

I have no idea if Amber identified a specific pallette but her lawyer did. And her lawyer made it seem like for the entire 15 months, she was using this pallette to cover bruises. That in itself made it unbelievable - that she was being assaulted to the point of facial injuries so often that she was continuously using a make-up pallette to cover bruises and cuts.

An interesting fact is that really no one has stood by Amber. From family to friends to coworkers to employees to past relationships - she has no one come out to speak to their loyalty to her, to her good character etc. There are texts from Amber's parnts to Johnny that show how they felt, there is past aggressive incidents with ex-wife, her sister, her ex-best friend. Her previous employees can't stand her. Her current cowokers have spoken out against her. It sounds like outside the relationship, she was also a very difficult person to get along with.

I’ve listed to the video before, it’s extremely difficult listening. At 48 minutes Johnny says “there can be no physical violence” and Ambers response “I can’t promise I won’t get physical again”.

The diagnosis of BPD fits Amber very well. The chameleon and adopting other people's identity and stories, the lies and manipulation, the not letting him walk away, escalating things....all fit with the underlying needs that she has that weren't met and the unhealthy ways she tried to meet them.

She is in many ways a textbook case.

Yes, found this.

www.nickwallis.com/_files/ugd/5df505_04ca47068ba94d2eb6e78fddadd1b2fb.pdf

All testimony transcripts are there, afaik. Fascinating and informative, unlike the dribble on TikTok etc.

Cross examination of Kate James. UK trial:

(page 1219 onward - my italics/bolds)

This is a text from Mr. Depp to you, dated 13th August 2016. My Lord on our copy, it is the very bottom. When you see the document, it is at the bottom of the schedule which you are going to be shown.
"Thank you sweetheart. I'm disgusted that I ever fucking touched that scum. Back on Tuesday and then court. Will hit you when I get back, doll. Come over for a spot of purple and we will fix her flabby arse nice and good. Loveth, J."

...(later in transcript)...

Q. It appears from that that Mr. Depp contacted you a few days before his divorce came through. Do you agree?
A. I had forgotten because I do not save text messages and that was many phones ago, so please forgive me if I forgot.

Kate James left Heard's employ in February 2015.

Thank you @ThrowawayBerna that's really interesting. I hadn't seen those documents. In terms of the texts between Kate James and Johnny Depp, it seems to refer to a previous agreement ("thank you sweetheart") or conversation about Amber but that obviously is all we know. I just don't think she came across as fair-minded. Obviously she has her opinion as I'm sure all the witnesses do but it does make her testimony a bit suspect IMO. For example when they talked about the texts about James Franco and not letting Johnny know they were filming a sex scene, she puts a particular interpretation on that to basically say it was nothing to do with any jealousy issues but because Amber had previously complained about him. Which obviously then undermines Amber's claim about the plane journey, that he was jealous and accusing her of cheating and then kicked her in front of other people (which is subsequently referred to in texts between Amber and one of the assistants who saw it). Sorry, it's pretty complicated but hopefully that makes sense!