Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Part 2 -AIBU to wonder why so many people assume Johnny Depp is the good guy and Amber Heard is the villain

1004 replies

StormzyinaTCup · 30/04/2022 19:14

Just thought I would start a follow on thread for anyone interested in the trial. I have kept it in AIBU so that it is easier for previous posters from Part 1 to find.
We are halfway through and have heard JD's testimony so next week we will hear from AH.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
7
Boulshired · 06/05/2022 10:44

I think the comment regarding Kate Moss was silly. It added nothing as “I was frightened for my sister” would have been enough. Now she has brought his past relationship into question that before were not relevant. If they can’t prove the photo time stamps then the court of public opinion will be horrific for her. I am hoping that cases will stop being shown live. If recorded maybe only viewed after the verdict. At present everything she says within seconds someone believes they have a contradiction.

ObjectionHearsay · 06/05/2022 10:46

If a witness doesn't have direct knowledge as in I was there I saw this. Or the text messages are vague and based on hearsay as in "I was told what happened" then it's not a witness.

Many reasons people can't testify and the witness can be thrown out.

Amber's problem is she has no direct witness to the alleged incidents. This is why DA cases and SA cases are so difficult.

JD I think has been "lucky" that he's called his security team to remove him, so they are witness to the immediate aftermath.

MarieIVanArkleStinks · 06/05/2022 11:43

It is very strange that Amber, who seemingly liked to document everything that Johnny Depp did wrong, never took photos or recordings of her own vicious beatings.

Oh yeah, truly incomprehensible. A guy's smacking you around the chops, smashing the wall next to your head, you're fearful and looking for an avenue to get away without provoking the inebriated psycho further. The first thing you're going to think of is grabbing your phone, managing to unlock your screen, finding the right app, then accurately hitting the 'record' button, at the same time trying to fend him off and very likely putting your arms up to defend your head. Why don't people think?

I'm actually surprised at the regularity with which this ridiculous protestation is being churned out. That's especially the case with the people commenting (broad social media, not necessarily here), that they are also victims of DV and who, you'd expect, would have learned otherwise through bitter experience.

I don't say I accept Heard's commentary uncritically. Depp's team have done a good job of casting doubt on her credibility as a witness and have raised the potentially serious issue that she could have lied on the stand in the Depp vs. The Sun case. If the appeals process isn't exhausted by this point, he'll likely go after her guns blazing once this case is concluded - regardless of outcome - and she could find herself in very hot water.

The accusations she made on the stand yesterday are hideous. It was appalling to witness - in the end I stopped streaming it. Presently there are holes in her story and I think if she can't provide some secure witness corroboration of what she is saying, she's in trouble. But we are only two witnesses in and her own testimony isn't concluded: his side have already had the opportunity of presenting his complete case. I'll withhold judgement until I've seen hers.

At first I'd have said it was very unlikely Depp would win this case. I'm now less sure.

BonnesVacances · 06/05/2022 12:02

So are we only going to believe sexual violence victims if we have photos of brutalised vaginas?

Oh don't be ridiculous!

So we are going to believe JD brutally physically and sexually assaulted AH and not one person in a phone recording that she covertly made at the time who saw her in the aftermath mentioned her injuries or suggested some medical help, other than her personal doctor and nurse who gave her an anti-psychotic sedative? No photos on injuries? No bloodied sheets? No evidence of any kind, except her word?

We are to believe that her bloodied feet from scrabbling and slipping over cut glass weren't noticed, that she wasn't limping around, that her face was covered with cuts and bruises, that she was bleeding from her vagina, and everyone was just focused on finding the tip of JD's finger?

And we are to believe that he brutally punched her in the face repeatedly but the photos she provided as evidence from a couple of days later don't show the level of facial injuries consistent with the abuse she reports?

Give over! She's doing a huge disservice to genuine victims of DV. I don't doubt he was a nightmare to live with. High, drugged, unpredictable, falling off the wagon. But if he'd even done half the things she's claiming, she wouldn't have to make anything up.

Boulshired · 06/05/2022 12:26

As each witness has spoken it became clear that the OP ED was just the vehicle so they could disprove the previous statements of Amber. I was shocked at how respectful they were to Ambers expert witness. Depps lawyer made some good points but didn’t go for the jugular. They let her speak quite often on yes-no questions it was mainly very pleasant. Their aim seems mainly to be to show the world that Amber is exactly the person Dr Curry described.

Boulshired · 06/05/2022 13:43

Does anyone know if Depps lawyers will now be able to question amber regarding her ex wife now that she has claimed Depp has previously pushed an ex down the stairs.

AdamRyan · 06/05/2022 13:59

Boulshired · 06/05/2022 10:44

I think the comment regarding Kate Moss was silly. It added nothing as “I was frightened for my sister” would have been enough. Now she has brought his past relationship into question that before were not relevant. If they can’t prove the photo time stamps then the court of public opinion will be horrific for her. I am hoping that cases will stop being shown live. If recorded maybe only viewed after the verdict. At present everything she says within seconds someone believes they have a contradiction.

In the sun trial she was grilled by the defence for not mentioning the kate moss "thought" when she bought up the alleged attack on her sister.
So not surprising she bought it up straight away this time.

AdamRyan · 06/05/2022 14:00

Trixiefirecracker · 06/05/2022 08:01

I think the fact she has repeatedly lied about things and has been shown to be unreliable in her various accounts calls everything else in to question sadly. I’m sure JD was an absolute arsehole but she has admitted to violence towards him on tape so the abuse is definitely both ways.

So he will lose then because the case is about whether she lied about his abuse, not whether she is also abusive

ENoeuf · 06/05/2022 14:02

Newrunner29 · 06/05/2022 10:37

If people r not allowed to testify then there will be good reason they won't be, there will b a proper process, not just not allowed because depps team said no! Maybe also people don't want to testify for her because they don't want to perjure themselves? Think that's right word
I do find it fascinating ur inability to see the obvious

I’m stunned at your rudeness, despite using MN a lot. Wow. I won’t retaliate, would rather keep the upper hand.

Newrunner29 · 06/05/2022 14:14

ENoeuf · 06/05/2022 14:02

I’m stunned at your rudeness, despite using MN a lot. Wow. I won’t retaliate, would rather keep the upper hand.

But what's rude about that? U haven't acknowledged anything about the fact all the reasons for the things , u mentioned could be the obvious, mm is a forum to speak and debate and see different sides of things, conversations are expected I don't think it's rude to put it out.

ENoeuf · 06/05/2022 14:21

‘I do find it fascinating ur inability to see the obvious’

you don’t think just generalising about me is rude? You’ve basically reduced me to someone you see as stupid.
of course I can theorise on the ‘why’ of something, doesn’t stop it feeling unfair which is literally all my point was.

Newrunner29 · 06/05/2022 14:26

ENoeuf · 06/05/2022 14:21

‘I do find it fascinating ur inability to see the obvious’

you don’t think just generalising about me is rude? You’ve basically reduced me to someone you see as stupid.
of course I can theorise on the ‘why’ of something, doesn’t stop it feeling unfair which is literally all my point was.

I apologise if I came across rude to u that wasn't my intention

AMegaPint · 06/05/2022 14:28

Diverseopinions · 06/05/2022 08:32

I don't know what is going on, in the sense of whether JD is trying to bring her down with him, because he knows his career is compromised and he doesn't see why she should have stella success- and partly on the back of being a figurehead for women's rights against abusers.

They are clearly both in the wrong. The photographic evidence makes painful viewing. Drugs clearly destroy judgement and the lives of celebrities. But I think, instinctively, people don't blame him for having a go to make himself look better, when she has been bad to him too. Not for the career and money, but just to say "This is who I am, warts and all, but not a Jekyll and Hyde type of monster".

People to whom I've spoken think her facial expressions and mannerisms lack sincerity. I wonder if it would be fair to her to suggest that, if she has had Botox and other treatments which celebrities have, maybe she can't move her facial muscles and this is making her look unnatural.

If she can't move her muscles because she's had botox, her whole face wouldn't move. Her expressions do lack sincerity. It's very over the top, theatrical and over exaggerated.

ENoeuf · 06/05/2022 14:48

@Newrunner29 thank you that’s nice of you. I like being on long threads which are chatty, I’ll try to be clearer if I post.

mummyrocks1 · 06/05/2022 15:13

MargeSimpson79 · 05/05/2022 23:59

she took a lot of photos but doesn’t seem to have any of her injuries? Could these come later? Otherwise it’s a bit strange.

There are lots of pictures of her bruises. I wonder how JDs lawyers are going to argue that.

It's strange that no one physically saw these though. Just pictures. Her pictures are weird too if the damage in Australia. If the damage was so bad why has she only taken pictures of a bit of blood, some stuff on the floor and a busted wall. Where's the table, the phone, the glass and bottles? Plus if you had the injuries she is claiming she had why is there no physical evidence of trips to doctors? Are we expected to believe she seeked no treatment for that? Surely you wouldn't go around taking photos of stuff after an attack like that. Surely you would just get out of there. so strange.

MarieIVanArkleStinks · 06/05/2022 15:14

In response to the last few posts, I think this issue is emotive. It's emotive for me because #MeToo (of which Heard seems to have been elevated to a poster-woman on the back of one article) truly illustrated two things. 1. the absolute prevalence of male on female harassments on practically every level. 2. the fact that, when women try to speak about it, the overwhelming response is to immediately get them to shut up again. They're attention-seeking. They're jumping on the bandwagon. They're lying. Anything but acknowledge the appalling, unassailable statistical evidence that women do have serious problems at the hands of men. (NB, that isn't to say female-on-male abuse doesn't exist too. It does. Are women sometimes awful? Yes. But given the likelihood of significant harm is far greater in reverse, this is whataboutery).

There's bias from the other angle too: that this is a patriarchy, and the reality is that society is far more comfortable with the presumption that women commonly lie than men commonly abuse. There's the powerful Hollywood dream sold to us, the fact that films sell on the back of the actor's face and not as an art form, the idea that we don't want to accept our beloved entertainers are anything other than perfect. The BBC has an image problem like this, too. Then there's the other contingent: that women who speak for other women, or attempt to protect them from this prevailing social wind, are 'man haters'.

I'm mother to a son. I fear toxic masculinity and the horrible pressure it puts on men. I want to see it taken seriously and urgently. As a woman myself, I fear male abuse. I have numerous first-hand experiences of it, some much more serious than others.

It's sometimes hard to look past these biases, which in my own case are wholly conscious on both sides, and see a situation objectively. Part of me wants to see Heard win, because otherwise it will be even harder for female victims of rape and DV to be taken seriously. Part of me sympathises with Depp - I know the pain and destruction of addiction in my own family, and if he, too, is a victim that's one in the eye for toxic masculinity. I just find it hard to accept this situation is completely one-sided and he's a wholly innocent victim. I mean - just look at his behaviour.

I think the interesting social responses to this situation illustrate much more than a belief of whether either or both parties are telling the truth (the only thing which the court is being asked to determine). It's made me explore my own biases, too.

Incidentally, I'm impressed with the Judge. She's balanced, fair, and has a calming and competent, as well as charismatic demeanor. She's also very succinct, clear and to the point on her instructions and to precisely what she will accept. Admirable, and eminently professional.

Midlifemusings · 06/05/2022 15:18

mummyrocks1 · 06/05/2022 15:13

There are lots of pictures of her bruises. I wonder how JDs lawyers are going to argue that.

It's strange that no one physically saw these though. Just pictures. Her pictures are weird too if the damage in Australia. If the damage was so bad why has she only taken pictures of a bit of blood, some stuff on the floor and a busted wall. Where's the table, the phone, the glass and bottles? Plus if you had the injuries she is claiming she had why is there no physical evidence of trips to doctors? Are we expected to believe she seeked no treatment for that? Surely you wouldn't go around taking photos of stuff after an attack like that. Surely you would just get out of there. so strange.

Her / JD's concierge doctor and nurse came to the house very soon after the incident and assessed both Johnny and Amber. The only treatment they felt Amber needed was medication to calm her down. They felt Johnny needed a skin graft likely and they were also concerned about infection because blue paint had gotten in the wound. They commented that the bone was smashed. Amber did have scratches on the inside of her arm - there was speculation these were self inflicted marks given how they looked (similar to when someone self harms in that way)

Midlifemusings · 06/05/2022 15:26

@MarieIVanArkleStinks

Whataboutery doesn't really apply at an individual case level. If a man reports he is being abused - that matters and it isn't mysogyny to bring it up.

There is clear evidence that Amber has lied - so questioning her credibility is also specific to her. I have no problem questioning the crediblity of someone who has lied.

If you listen to the recordings, it would be impossible to say this is one sided. Johnny has clear issues with substances and definitely damages property while in an intoxicated state. He also has called her names. Amber taunts him and mocks him and demeans him and has hit him and thrown things at him. There is no innocent party in this case.

mummyrocks1 · 06/05/2022 15:28

There is more than one incident that she is accusing him of. The photos of her alleged injuries are from other times she says he beat her.

I hope they play that audio link from further down the thread. That shows amber was present and coherent after the finger incident and had no medical help and no one noticed any injuries.

Midlifemusings · 06/05/2022 15:36

mummyrocks1 · 06/05/2022 15:28

There is more than one incident that she is accusing him of. The photos of her alleged injuries are from other times she says he beat her.

I hope they play that audio link from further down the thread. That shows amber was present and coherent after the finger incident and had no medical help and no one noticed any injuries.

They can't play most of that audio because Jerry Judge who features heavily in it is dead and can't testify.

ENoeuf · 06/05/2022 15:39

It seems to go back and forth a lot, I’m finding it hard to follow any chronology. I hate to raise it but I didn’t follow her bottle testimony at all and the photos of the bottles but it’s not really something I want to pick apart.
i am struggling with the lack of clear photos of injuries, although the ones she has show bruising it doesn’t seem as extensive as her descriptions.
essentially though it is staggering if this is true that she is basically saying his team, anyone who suspected, covered for him and allowed DA to continue. That’s surely career ending not just for Depp.

Midlifemusings · 06/05/2022 15:47

@ENoeuf

I too find the testimony hard to follow as they jump around date wise and sometimes I am unsure if I have just heard 1 even being described 3 times or 3 events being described once. It gets very confusing and I wonder why the lawyers don't create clearer timelines.

The medical practitioners should lose their licenses if she is telling the truth. In the Australia story, her testimony was being slammed against the floor, repeatedly punched in the head, dragged naked by her hair across broken glass, cut up feet from walking barefoot on broken glass, and bleeding from her vagina after a sexual assault. The doctor and nurse were both on site very shortly after that happened and interacted in person with her and their only treatment was to give her medication to help her calm down and get some sleep. That is absolute malpractice if they ignored all her injuries and the clear risk to her life and safety.

ObjectionHearsay · 06/05/2022 15:57

Midlifemusings · 06/05/2022 15:47

@ENoeuf

I too find the testimony hard to follow as they jump around date wise and sometimes I am unsure if I have just heard 1 even being described 3 times or 3 events being described once. It gets very confusing and I wonder why the lawyers don't create clearer timelines.

The medical practitioners should lose their licenses if she is telling the truth. In the Australia story, her testimony was being slammed against the floor, repeatedly punched in the head, dragged naked by her hair across broken glass, cut up feet from walking barefoot on broken glass, and bleeding from her vagina after a sexual assault. The doctor and nurse were both on site very shortly after that happened and interacted in person with her and their only treatment was to give her medication to help her calm down and get some sleep. That is absolute malpractice if they ignored all her injuries and the clear risk to her life and safety.

Re "the professionals" I'm absolutely appalled by their "lack of safeguarding"

If I had a service user who I knew was going through DA, and I saw any injury, I'd note it I may also directly ask "how did you get that?" and also note the response. Just incase I'm called to court for something!

Makes no difference to note something and then it never see the light of day, than fail to note something and then get called to a witness stand!

During one testimony the notes said "they needed to be kept apart" but no explanation as to why, no clear indication of what had happened to trigger this safeguarding procedure.

If anything this trial has done is made me refresh my team that I manage on "the importance of note taking" 😳

Factual, accurate notes are paramount!

ENoeuf · 06/05/2022 16:05

@Midlifemusings @ObjectionHearsay
this is really difficult to understand - her recounting is appalling and I really feel uncomfortable with its being broadcast (although I’m a hypocrite and have watched it). But as you say surely loyalty/fandom/salary comes beneath safeguarding or reporting abuse - no one leaked it even if they were scared of directly getting involved?

bigjuice01 · 06/05/2022 16:06

Amber Heard reminds me a lot of my mother. Who was emotionally and physically abusive and now that I'm an adult, I realize she had definite narcissistic tendencies. So I feel bad for Amber's child (however, I'm very biased).

Please create an account

To comment on this thread you need to create a Mumsnet account.

This thread is not accepting new messages.