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AIBU?

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Original poster

DD accused of cheating at school

277 replies

Grizzzly · 30/04/2022 08:17

DD (11) is working on a school project with another girl in her class. The kids have been paired up by the teacher and the kids got no say on who they had to work with.

DD is quite academic and enjoys her school work and is very much enjoying this project. The other girl however is not on the same page, she isn’t interested in it and when the girls meet up after school to work on it the other girl just wants to watch YouTube videos or play games.

The bits the other girl has managed to do are (in DDs worse) “scruffy and incorrect”. DD has got frustrated and has redone the other girls work but still credited it to the other girl.

the teacher picked up on this and said she could tell DD had written what was meant to be written by the other girl. She questioned the girls, showed them the “suspicious work” and the other girl said “I didn’t do that”. DD then had to admit that she’d done it. She got into a lot of trouble and then told the teacher “well I don’t want to be held back by her, I want to win”. This got her into more trouble.

AIBU to side with DD on this? The best project wins a prize and will have their work displayed.

OP posts:
CreatingAUsernameThen · 30/04/2022 17:37

Side with your DD. It isn't fair to give a prize in this sort of scenario.
She takes pride in her work, including that which is linked to her. I'd say that was a positive thing and she shouldn't be punished for doing extra work in order to succeed.

Mummyoflittledragon · 30/04/2022 17:48

justfiveminutes · 30/04/2022 17:03

"Talking about what obstacles she will face when she’s at university and beyond is so far away for a child, who is only year 7 or even year 6 that it won’t even really register. My year 9 dd is only really cottoning on now."

Of course. But not too young to learn empathy, kindness, that removing someone else's work is wrong, that saying 'I didn't want to be held back by her' is wrong. She might not understand the full implications, but her mum does, and should respond accordingly imo.

Saying it's the teachers fault for badly planning the project, saying it's the other pupils fault for not doing the work, saying that you understand why she did it, all send a message that I personally don't think is useful for her wider development.

As a teacher, the kind, patient children absolutely shine out at you. Mould her into one of those.

Agreed. But I’m not sure op’s dd meant it as you’re interpreting. I think it was more that as the other girl hadn’t completed a page and as a result she believed they’d not even be considered for the prize. It is unsurprising under these circumstances when she’d tried to voice concerns to the teacher that she resorted to rewriting the work to comply with the rules.

You’ve said how you’d get the children to complete the task. I think your approach is great. However, I’m not sure this was the case with this teacher and as I have previously said, I think the teacher should not have come up with a team homework project that children can fail at. For let’s not forget that both children in the team failed to meet the criteria expected. Op’s dd for not being a team player (but was she told what team playing meant?) and the other child for not completing a page of work.

This is why I think op should look for it to be a point of learning for both staff member and pupil.

JulesRimetStillGleaming · 30/04/2022 17:54

CreatingAUsernameThen · 30/04/2022 17:37

Side with your DD. It isn't fair to give a prize in this sort of scenario.
She takes pride in her work, including that which is linked to her. I'd say that was a positive thing and she shouldn't be punished for doing extra work in order to succeed.

She lied and cheated. I'd like to say she won't get far in life with that attitude but given the state of the country, that's not quite true. She lied and cheated. That's not to be encouraged.

PolkadotsAndMoonbeams · 30/04/2022 18:17

They should be made to do it again properly. Perhaps over lunchtimes with the teacher supervising.

That should punish all three of them sufficiently. Grin

Hawkins001 · 30/04/2022 19:34

JulesRimetStillGleaming · 30/04/2022 17:54

She lied and cheated. I'd like to say she won't get far in life with that attitude but given the state of the country, that's not quite true. She lied and cheated. That's not to be encouraged.

Show quote history

In quite a lot of industries their will be the rouges and Machiavellian philosophy of different people.

Hawkins001 · 30/04/2022 19:41

Grizzzly · 30/04/2022 09:25

I spoke to the teacher on Friday after DD said she’d been in trouble. She’d completely rewrote the other girls work, tried to do it in different handwriting and credited it to the other girl so yeah, in the real world this would be fraudulent I guess. But they’re 11 years old.

she kept the other girls work, it was one paragraph written badly with incorrect information. The requirement for that part was a full page.

DD wrote a full page, purposely made some spelling mistakes, tried to copy the other girls handwriting and corrected the misinformation.

I have told her that what she did was dishonest and as an adult would have gotten her into a LOT of trouble but that I understood why she did it. I asked why she didn’t just speak to the teacher and she said she’d tried but was told to stop tell-tailing.

Another perspective I've come across is that for an e.g. business proposal ect the whole team has to pull together or pickup and 're do if necessary others parts of the project rather than risking failure of the proposal as a whole.

Hawkins001 · 30/04/2022 19:41

"Empires are not always built by clever bookkeeping"

pucelleauxblanchesmains · 30/04/2022 19:44

At school I was frequently paired up with the least bright and cooperative kids in the class because teachers seemed to love nothing more than to fob them off on a quiet, intelligent girl. If I sound bitter, I am. It was like pulling teeth trying to get anything done and often no amount of cajoling into teamwork or letting them do the easy bits would help with this. So regardless of right and wrong here, I very much sympathise with your DD and suspect a lot of posters on here would feel similarly if they were forced to pair up with an incompetent coworker.

pucelleauxblanchesmains · 30/04/2022 19:52

@justfiveminutes I think the idea it's not kind to want someone to pull their weight on a school project is also pretty harmful to development! Women are socialised to "empathy" ourselves to death and never show frustration even when it might be legitimate. Maybe I'm coming at it differently because I'm autistic and blunt but also it seems pretty factually correct to say that the other student was holding her back in the competition even if it's one of those things you have to teach people to think but never say out loud.

ldontWanna · 30/04/2022 19:58

pucelleauxblanchesmains · 30/04/2022 19:44

At school I was frequently paired up with the least bright and cooperative kids in the class because teachers seemed to love nothing more than to fob them off on a quiet, intelligent girl. If I sound bitter, I am. It was like pulling teeth trying to get anything done and often no amount of cajoling into teamwork or letting them do the easy bits would help with this. So regardless of right and wrong here, I very much sympathise with your DD and suspect a lot of posters on here would feel similarly if they were forced to pair up with an incompetent coworker.

They kept trying to that to DD for a while. I complained. One disruptive child was swapped for another. I complained again, and so on until they gave up. It was even worse last year when they were in rows,2 at a table so there was no escape or respite. My kid is not a behaviour management tool.

Confusion101 · 30/04/2022 20:01

One of the criteria for the project was clearly to work as a team given everything we know about what the teacher said so actually the OPs daughter held herself back from winning the prize. Teachers know the capability of their students. The best project might not necessarily be the one with the best information or the neatest handwriting, but those who worked hard and achieved their full potential honestly!

pucelleauxblanchesmains · 30/04/2022 20:12

@Confusion101 But that feels like a mind game or did for me at that age.

Dontfuckingsaycheese · 30/04/2022 20:12

Group projects can be a fucking nightmare. I’m 52. Teacher training student. A group project due day after Easter Monday nearly broke me. And fellow project team-member. 😫😫😫

justfiveminutes · 30/04/2022 20:22

pucelleauxblanchesmains · 30/04/2022 19:52

@justfiveminutes I think the idea it's not kind to want someone to pull their weight on a school project is also pretty harmful to development! Women are socialised to "empathy" ourselves to death and never show frustration even when it might be legitimate. Maybe I'm coming at it differently because I'm autistic and blunt but also it seems pretty factually correct to say that the other student was holding her back in the competition even if it's one of those things you have to teach people to think but never say out loud.

No, I meant that it's not kind to tell someone, in front of a teacher, that their work was removed as substandard and that she was 'holding me back.' I'm a teacher. I quite understand the frustration of working with someone who 'lets the team down' - because they lack the ability or the motivation - as it happens in all walks of life, but there are ways of handling it that don't reveal you to be an absolute arse. Op's dd might not have learnt that yet, she's young so I'm
not judging her for it really, but the adults on here saying it's the teachers fault, the other girls fault, she did nothing wrong etc show a lack of character imo. I'd also be worried about how the other pupils are going to feel about op's dd once they hear about this.

Hawkins001 · 30/04/2022 20:27

justfiveminutes · 30/04/2022 20:22

No, I meant that it's not kind to tell someone, in front of a teacher, that their work was removed as substandard and that she was 'holding me back.' I'm a teacher. I quite understand the frustration of working with someone who 'lets the team down' - because they lack the ability or the motivation - as it happens in all walks of life, but there are ways of handling it that don't reveal you to be an absolute arse. Op's dd might not have learnt that yet, she's young so I'm
not judging her for it really, but the adults on here saying it's the teachers fault, the other girls fault, she did nothing wrong etc show a lack of character imo. I'd also be worried about how the other pupils are going to feel about op's dd once they hear about this.

Show quote history

One perspecive that the other students could realise is, if you want to win and do well, then try to have the ops dd on your team when doing class projects.

Confusion101 · 30/04/2022 20:28

But she didn't do well as she didn't meet the criteria of the assignment, and didn't win the prize? 😂

Sirzy · 30/04/2022 20:34

The daft thing is if she had handed it in with her part done well but left the other child’s work the teacher would have been able to see the distribution of work clearly anyway and make her own judgements from that.

Trainbear · 30/04/2022 20:34

Soontobe60 · 30/04/2022 08:24

I think at 11, saying you ‘don’t want to be held back’ to another 11 year old is very harsh. If the other child has some SEN, then it makes it even worse. Whilst I can empathise with your dd slightly, I’d be pretty annoyed if a pupil in my class did this to another pupil. I’d expect her to come and talk to me first about any difficulties they’re having. In saying that, I’d never pair up pupils to do a project at home anyway.
Where did they do this work?

Is the any suggestion that the other child has SEN? I cannot see any mention of it.
Sounds like your dd has been landed with Miss "Can't be bovvah'd"

fUNNYfACE36 · 30/04/2022 20:40

To remove the other child's work and redo it, attributing to the other child was highhanded condescending and plain rude
You dont seem to get how overbearing your dd is. If i was the other child's parent i would be furious with your pushy dd

teacherorpreacher · 30/04/2022 20:40

justfiveminutes
I agree. Also the other child may have been overwhelmed and was too embarrassed to say anything.

CreatingAUsernameThen · 30/04/2022 20:55

JulesRimetStillGleaming · 30/04/2022 17:54

She lied and cheated. I'd like to say she won't get far in life with that attitude but given the state of the country, that's not quite true. She lied and cheated. That's not to be encouraged.

Show quote history

She is an 11 year old child. They had the children competing for a prize. She wanted to win. She was paired with a child who that was impossible with, so much so the teacher knew the work couldn't possibly be hers. The teacher told her off for telling tales when trying to talk about it.

The fault here is with the school/ teacher. It isn't fair to give a prize to the best in this scenario. Concerns shouldn't have been dismissed. She's 11, she's probably still playing with dolls (even if in secret now secondary school). I don't know why some posters expect a girl of that age to respond in a way I don't think many adults would. Adults would be swapping and demanding new partners, if they couldn't, they'd either give up or take it all on. I would absolutely think it was positive she took pride in her work and put in extra work modestly without taking credit. She didn't give up, she tried to find a solution. This prize giving in these circumstances is unfair and there are better ways to do team building or collaborative exercises.

justfiveminutes · 30/04/2022 20:58

"One perspecive that the other students could realise is, if you want to win and do well, then try to have the ops dd on your team when doing class projects."

Indeed. I suspect not but yes, maybe.

PolkadotsAndMoonbeams · 30/04/2022 20:59

If i was the other child's parent i would be furious with your pushy dd

At 11 and not used to doing project work as a team, I think either it should have been done in school or the parents should have supervised and helped. Not with the work itself, but smoothing ruffled feathers and keeping it on track.

Eleven year olds aren't that grown up and I don't believe it's a skill you can learn by being put in a pressured situation. OP's DD was frustrated, and the other girl didn't work well under the conditions either. An adult bringing them a drink and biscuit and and popping in to say "How are you getting on? Why don't you show me what you've done?" and a bit of sympathy where required would probably have really helped.

ldontWanna · 30/04/2022 20:59

Confusion101 · 30/04/2022 20:28

But she didn't do well as she didn't meet the criteria of the assignment, and didn't win the prize? 😂

Oh yeah let's laugh at the 11 yo who got an unclear assignment, was asked to compete for a prize ,was given a partner that couldn't or wouldn't do their part and then was ignored when she complained. It's absolutely fucking hilarious.

Yes what she did was wrong. Given the lengths she went to though , it's possible OP's DD has some issues herself.

Confusion101 · 30/04/2022 20:59

Her solution involved lying, forging work, and cheating. Bravo 11 year old! Great work