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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

DD accused of cheating at school

277 replies

Grizzzly · 30/04/2022 08:17

DD (11) is working on a school project with another girl in her class. The kids have been paired up by the teacher and the kids got no say on who they had to work with.

DD is quite academic and enjoys her school work and is very much enjoying this project. The other girl however is not on the same page, she isn’t interested in it and when the girls meet up after school to work on it the other girl just wants to watch YouTube videos or play games.

The bits the other girl has managed to do are (in DDs worse) “scruffy and incorrect”. DD has got frustrated and has redone the other girls work but still credited it to the other girl.

the teacher picked up on this and said she could tell DD had written what was meant to be written by the other girl. She questioned the girls, showed them the “suspicious work” and the other girl said “I didn’t do that”. DD then had to admit that she’d done it. She got into a lot of trouble and then told the teacher “well I don’t want to be held back by her, I want to win”. This got her into more trouble.

AIBU to side with DD on this? The best project wins a prize and will have their work displayed.

OP posts:
ChocBloc · 30/04/2022 08:57

Ok not cheating- dishonesty, lying, some sort of weird reverse plagiarism.

ChocBloc · 30/04/2022 09:00

The mistake the teacher made was making a prize for this rather than just a mark on how well they worked as a team playing to their strengths. They could have presented it as the girl who couldn't be bothered did the research and hand her notes in and then DD did the write up.

Notagoodnight · 30/04/2022 09:03

Grizzzly · 30/04/2022 08:23

Yes kind of, they had to each contribute to each section of the project and highlight who had wrote what. The idea was to show they had worked together.

Show quote history

Then there is absolutely no way I would be supporting my DD over this. She didn't actually fulfill any of the requirements of the task and yes she cheated because "winning" was more important to her than following the rules. The irony is she clearly missed the primary purpose of the assignment was that you each encourage the other to achieve their best.

If it was my daughter I'd be telling her that if she was having trouble with her teammate, she needed to raise it with the teacher before the assignment was submitted. That would have been the time to support her.

Support her now you're telling her that winning is more important than interpersonal relationships or rules. My DD would be getting merry hell for me if she did/thought this.

You can protest things you feel are unjust, you dont cheat to win any any cost

Threetulips · 30/04/2022 09:06

I do absolutely hate these sort of things though as it's never all the kids that want to do well that are put together.

Isnt that the point?

My children had to do these projects, something like creating a small business, given a small amount of cash, order and assemble what they’re selling, advertising, group presentation, additional sales - usually another school volunteers to have them in assembly and sell them the next day.

So yes she did cheat, it always a group project and her targets wouldn’t have been met.

They look at collaboration, team work, etc nobody wants to work with the bossy kid who does it all and makes them feel useless, your daughter learnt nothing.

Notagoodnight · 30/04/2022 09:07

I'd also be teaching my DD there is value in helping others achieve their best, even if it isnt as good as yours.

Tbh it actually sounds like your DD potentially had more to gain from the pairing. It's a shame she missed it.

WeAreTheHeroes · 30/04/2022 09:12

Who said she cheated? Is that what the teacher said or your take on it? Sounds to me as though there's been a fundamental lack of guidance or possibly understanding of the guidance. When we did this kind of thing at school (long ago) the planning and deciding who was going to do what happened in the classroom and we worked independently on our bits during school holidays then put it together back in class.

ChocBloc · 30/04/2022 09:14

Threetulips · 30/04/2022 09:06

I do absolutely hate these sort of things though as it's never all the kids that want to do well that are put together.

Isnt that the point?

My children had to do these projects, something like creating a small business, given a small amount of cash, order and assemble what they’re selling, advertising, group presentation, additional sales - usually another school volunteers to have them in assembly and sell them the next day.

So yes she did cheat, it always a group project and her targets wouldn’t have been met.

They look at collaboration, team work, etc nobody wants to work with the bossy kid who does it all and makes them feel useless, your daughter learnt nothing.

Yes but if the kids who can't be bothered and don't want to do it are paired with each other it gives everyone who does actually want to learn a better experience. If my colleague did no work/a half arsed attempt they'd be fired not told to work along side me and drag me down.

girlmom21 · 30/04/2022 09:17

Notagoodnight · 30/04/2022 09:07

I'd also be teaching my DD there is value in helping others achieve their best, even if it isnt as good as yours.

Tbh it actually sounds like your DD potentially had more to gain from the pairing. It's a shame she missed it.

But if the other girl didn't want to achieve her best there's not much OP's DD could've done

ChocBloc · 30/04/2022 09:18

The only thing DD would have learned is that sometimes you're never going to win something due to someone else not being arsed.

Original poster
Grizzzly · 30/04/2022 09:25

I spoke to the teacher on Friday after DD said she’d been in trouble. She’d completely rewrote the other girls work, tried to do it in different handwriting and credited it to the other girl so yeah, in the real world this would be fraudulent I guess. But they’re 11 years old.

she kept the other girls work, it was one paragraph written badly with incorrect information. The requirement for that part was a full page.

DD wrote a full page, purposely made some spelling mistakes, tried to copy the other girls handwriting and corrected the misinformation.

I have told her that what she did was dishonest and as an adult would have gotten her into a LOT of trouble but that I understood why she did it. I asked why she didn’t just speak to the teacher and she said she’d tried but was told to stop tell-tailing.

OP posts:
PurassicJark · 30/04/2022 09:27

What your daughter did is exactly what we adults do at university and work. University group projects usually has at least one lazy person on the team who contributed nothing good. Why should the whole team get a low grade just because of one lazy person?

At work, people are often covering up someone else's shitty work because telling managers gets you nowhere, you get ignored and if the work isn't done right, someone else suffers for it.

Why is it fine for adults to do this, but not kids? I'd back your daughter. Bet the teacher has done this in the past.

MsTSwift · 30/04/2022 09:31

It’s hard when you do things well and are a perfectionist and someone doing something you are responsible for is doing a crap job and sabotages it.

Dd2 had similar thing at primary - she gets it from Dh. They just don’t suffer fools gladly.

DrBlackbird · 30/04/2022 09:31

@BelleTheBananas Not to derail the thread, but I’m interested to hear that group work is viewed as outdated and unfair. Is there any research that you could point me to?

Antarcticant · 30/04/2022 09:33

She’d completely rewrote the other girls work, tried to do it in different handwriting and credited it to the other girl

That's where she went wrong. If she'd made no secret of it, she could just have said she'd rewritten it by mutual agreement so the whole project was in the same handwriting, 'purely for presentation reasons' Wink

WTF475878237NC · 30/04/2022 09:35

This is a good lesson to learn now because if she did this at university she would be in trouble too. She should have addressed this with her teacher not do the other girl's contribution.

JulesRimetStillGleaming · 30/04/2022 09:39

I think she rightly got into trouble and this is an important lesson to learn. You can't forge and lie and cheat in order to win. Would you prefer the teacher praised her for being so competitive and told her yes you can falsify written documents and pretend to be other people if you think you are better than them and there's a prize at the end of it? I hope she's learnt the lesson.

ChocBloc · 30/04/2022 09:41

in the real world this would be fraudulent I guess. But they’re 11 years old. old enough to learn. She knew what she was doing was dishonest or she wouldn't have tried to fake handwriting etc.

starfishmummy · 30/04/2022 09:43

Grizzzly · 30/04/2022 08:23

Yes kind of, they had to each contribute to each section of the project and highlight who had wrote what. The idea was to show they had worked together.

Show quote history

So she didn't follow the instructions?

I'd expect her to be pulled up over that and lose marks, but would not term it "cheating".

Confusion101 · 30/04/2022 09:43

Cheating is the wrong word, but she didn't follow the task guidelines at all, and the other student must have felt absolutely awful! I would've been devastated if I was that child. The point is to mix people of different abilities and talents so that they can each contribute and learn new skills.

Was there a guideline as to what "best project" would win? It could have been those who showed they worked the best together, regardless of information put into the project. At 11 it is very important to learn about winning and losing so I don't agree with those saying there shouldn't have been a prize for best project, just maybe some guidance of what "best project" actually means! Learning to lose gracefully and not throw a tantrum is a vital lifeskill to have!

GiltEdges · 30/04/2022 09:44

PurassicJark · 30/04/2022 09:27

What your daughter did is exactly what we adults do at university and work. University group projects usually has at least one lazy person on the team who contributed nothing good. Why should the whole team get a low grade just because of one lazy person?

At work, people are often covering up someone else's shitty work because telling managers gets you nowhere, you get ignored and if the work isn't done right, someone else suffers for it.

Why is it fine for adults to do this, but not kids? I'd back your daughter. Bet the teacher has done this in the past.

It's not fine for adults to do it Confused It's the product of a broken system, not one to teach children to copy.

OP, your DD was wrong. She's 11, not a baby, so she's capable of understanding that. The task wasn't just about ability, it was also about working together, in which your DD failed because she cared more about winning. She lacks integrity, it's as simple as that, and deserved to have that called out.

Krakenchorus · 30/04/2022 09:52

I never assign group projects, unless they are completed in class and under my supervision. Someone is always coasting. In class, I can see the benefits of group work.

In this case, your dd knew the rules and broke them. Back the teacher.

Imagine this had been a relay race in PE, and your dd insisted on running both sections, because she's faster.

Confusion101 · 30/04/2022 09:53

Imagine this had been a relay race in PE, and your dd insisted on running both sections, because she's faster.

What an excellent analogy!! Love that

parrotonmyshoulder · 30/04/2022 09:56

‘They are being assessed on how they worked together.’

But they don’t seem to have been ‘taught’ how to work together. Seems very unfair to be ‘assessing’ (unless baselining) on what hasn’t been taught.

CJsGoldfish · 30/04/2022 09:59

Nope, I wouldn't be supporting my child in this situation. 'Winning' at any cost is not an attractive trait.
She was deceptive and dismissive of the other participant.

Jedsnewstar · 30/04/2022 10:00

In group projects I will often group academic kids with hard working but not so bright kids. (I say kids-teens). The academic ones benefit because teaching someone something is a level above understanding it. The ‘genuinely’ lazy ones go together. No child should be responsible for another’s learning.