Page 14 | Grrrrr Prince Harry ...

FlipHesAnnoying · 2022-04-27T14:59:40+00:00

When will he stop criticising the UK (fair enough you left us (thanks!), but stop with the 'oh the USA is great and UK is crap etc...' It's annoying) And .... Remember Harry - we are NOT ALL LOADED!!! Where are we supposed to get the money for all this therapy you think we should have? The NHS is at breaking point (have you noticed? What r you doing to help?) And we can't all afford private therapy Harry ... especially not 4 years worth!! 'my therapist spoke to your therapist..' is not a reality for most of us struggling to afford heating. Out of touch much? Yes

Billandben444 · 05/05/2022 06:54

mathanxiety · 05/05/2022 02:35

Eager to learn what is 'knee-jerk' about that?

The reason there is rarely a reasoned conversation about race here is that some people are starting to approach the subject miles behind the starting line.

Hence the complete lack of self awareness around white privilege, and the ignorance when it comes to history.

My previous post was in response to the '1% of black blood makes you black in the USA' and I was pointing out that, in London, we are so racially and culturally diverse that some people don't even think about that. You jumped straight in with your 'white privilege and ignorance of history', shutting down any useful conversation on this. For what it's worth, I've been fairly supportive of MM on these threads but if you want to keep on with the white privilege stuff then crack on, I'm done.

ancientgran · 05/05/2022 09:21

mathanxiety · 04/05/2022 17:29

The ignored white heritage discourse is really distasteful. The assertion of blackness does not disadvantage white people, @ancientgran. People with as little as the infamous 'one drop' of 'black blood' have been historically extremely disadvantaged by that heritage, in a context of institutionalised racism, and many chose to hide it in hopes of avoiding the painful experiences which often accompanied designation as black.

In years past, people were not allowed a choice of racial identification if that identification meant they would mingle freely with white people, marry white people, work alongside white people, etc, but now that identification as one or the other is possible with the expectation that doing so will not result in discrimination, making one particular choice is greeted with anger and disappointment - a response which makes the issue all about the feelings of the white person - and there are hints that there are ulterior motives to identifying as black.

Fwiw, Meghan Markle has written and spoken about her pain on being effectively asked to deny one side or the other of her heritage, while filling out a form in school.

I responded directly to a poster claiming racial blindness.

I've never seen a form in the UK where someone has to deny one side of their heritage, forms generally have lots of options and a final "other" so no dilemma for my kids, just shows that acknowledging mixed race is a positive.

PeaceLurking9to5 · 05/05/2022 11:19

In the one hand, how would I know, not having been brought up in America, but it is hard to believe that America, The Melting Pot, did not have boxes on its forms for mixed race or other.

ancientgran · 05/05/2022 17:43

PeaceLurking9to5 · 05/05/2022 11:19

In the one hand, how would I know, not having been brought up in America, but it is hard to believe that America, The Melting Pot, did not have boxes on its forms for mixed race or other.

Well apparently Meghan Markle had to fill in a form that she had to choose one or the other. Maybe things have changed or then again maybe they haven't. Maybe her school was a one off.

ajandjjmum · 05/05/2022 18:57

Her Dad telling her to 'Draw your own box' makes a nice story though.

ancientgran · 05/05/2022 19:01

ajandjjmum · 05/05/2022 18:57

Her Dad telling her to 'Draw your own box' makes a nice story though.

Um yes, nice story.

My kids like mixing it up a big (excuse the pun) they tell me that they sometimes click white, sometimes black, sometimes mixed. Depends how they feel.

mathanxiety · 07/05/2022 06:26

In the one hand, how would I know, not having been brought up in America, but it is hard to believe that America, The Melting Pot, did not have boxes on its forms for mixed race or other.

I am happy to inform you that mixed race was not an option on US census forms until the census of 2000, when Meghan Markle was nineteen.

Sixteen states outlawed interracial marriage until 1967. You can look up what miscegenation means and how much effort went into preventing it, if you wish.

The notion of 'one drop' meant that a single black ancestor in your lineage meant you were black. What do you all not understand about the ramifications of this rule? It's been mentioned several times on this thread.

It is hard to believe that there are people who know so little about American history posting with such confidence about America, and casting doubts on Meghan Markle's lived experience left, right and centre.

FYI, @ancientgran , the 2001 census was the first one in the England and Wales in which mixed race options were were offered. Three specific options plus a write in option were the offerings. Scotland and NI that year only included 'Any Mixed' and 'Mixed' respectively.

mathanxiety · 07/05/2022 06:27

England and Wales census questions

ancientgran · 07/05/2022 10:32

mathanxiety · 07/05/2022 06:26

In the one hand, how would I know, not having been brought up in America, but it is hard to believe that America, The Melting Pot, did not have boxes on its forms for mixed race or other.

I am happy to inform you that mixed race was not an option on US census forms until the census of 2000, when Meghan Markle was nineteen.

Sixteen states outlawed interracial marriage until 1967. You can look up what miscegenation means and how much effort went into preventing it, if you wish.

The notion of 'one drop' meant that a single black ancestor in your lineage meant you were black. What do you all not understand about the ramifications of this rule? It's been mentioned several times on this thread.

It is hard to believe that there are people who know so little about American history posting with such confidence about America, and casting doubts on Meghan Markle's lived experience left, right and centre.

FYI, @ancientgran , the 2001 census was the first one in the England and Wales in which mixed race options were were offered. Three specific options plus a write in option were the offerings. Scotland and NI that year only included 'Any Mixed' and 'Mixed' respectively.

I don't think the census has been mentioned before, it was about a school issue so no idea why you are bringing the census into it.

FYI @mathanxiety prior to 1930 the US census had a classification of mulatto for mixed race people. In the 19th century it was even more specific with categories for octoroon or quadroon. In fact the way races and mixed races have been categorised in the US census has varied widely over time but that is all totally irrelevant to MM filling in a form at school.

TryingNotToReact9to5 · 09/05/2022 17:26

@mathanxiety thank you for the information about the census.
I wasnt posting with confidence! I started my post with "what would I know".

mathanxiety · 10/05/2022 03:20

I don't think the census has been mentioned before, it was about a school issue so no idea why you are bringing the census into it.

FYI @mathanxiety prior to 1930 the US census had a classification of mulatto for mixed race people. In the 19th century it was even more specific with categories for octoroon or quadroon. In fact the way races and mixed races have been categorised in the US census has varied widely over time but that is all totally irrelevant to MM filling in a form at school.

Ok, where to start...

The disgusting classifications 'mulatto', 'octaroon', etc were a way of pinpointing exactly how much 'black blood' an individual had in them. This wasn't a celebration of mixed race individuals or the concept of mixed race. It was a way of reinforcing the One Drop rule. One Drop and you're black. Or one drop and you're 'Indian' if mixed white and 'Indian'. Or one drop and you're black if mixed 'Indian' and black. The purity of the white race had to be preserved. The idea of black heritage tainting everything it mingled with was all pervasive.

And FYI, it wasn't the individual himself or herself who noted these descriptions. It was the enumerators who took a look at the citizen and checked the box they considered appropriate.

Meghan Markle's experience of having to choose one race or the other in a school form mirrored official policy and ideas around race at the time, which were a hangover from the One Drop days.

You don't seem to know or understand much of the history of race relations in the US, @ancientgran.

mathanxiety · 10/05/2022 03:23

It was this horrific categorisation of human beings which appalled and hurt Meghan Markle so much when a member of the ignorant family she married into started speculating on how black her baby would look.