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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Sons ex not letting us see grandchild

130 replies

zilli · 27/04/2022 14:16

Our son met a girl a few months ago and had an on/off relationship which didn't work out and now she's pregnant.
She has said she only wants her family involved, as she wants to do this on her own, it's her baby and she doesn't need anyone else and although our son is saying this isn't right, he's afraid to rock the boat as she's already got him jumping through hoops saying if she doesn't put him on the birth certificate he won't have parental rights and she'll hold all the cards.
Is she being unreasonable to cut us out of our only grandchild's life before they're even born or is this her prerogative and we just suck it up.

OP posts:
Viviennemary · 27/04/2022 17:10

Legally in this country grandparents have no rights. Your son does have rights even if he has to fight for them. He may well need dna proof of paternity.

JoeGoldberg · 27/04/2022 17:11

Viviennemary · 27/04/2022 17:10

Legally in this country grandparents have no rights. Your son does have rights even if he has to fight for them. He may well need dna proof of paternity.

No, he doesn't have RIGHTS. The baby has RIGHTS. The son just has parental responsibility and even then he'd have to prove the child was his to have his name added to the birth certificate.

BernadetteRostankowskiWolowitz · 27/04/2022 17:24

The fact that OP is asking on his behalf? Meaning that the man hasn’t bothered to even find out basics?

How do we know he isn't doing his own research elsewhere? The OP is asking about her rights to see the child (zero).

Moomeh · 27/04/2022 17:28

MrsTerryPratchett · 27/04/2022 16:31

Imagine asking a woman why she didn't report her violent husband, telling her she was unethical sleeping with him, asking why she didn't insist on condoms/take the pill.

It is not comparable. You can't just imagine the opposite situation because it doesn't exist. Until 2-3 men a week are killed by violent women and men can get pregnant, you can't compare the two.

That's not to say her violence isn't wrong, of course it is. But it's not comparable.

I couldn't agree with this more.

Op calls the pregnant woman "a girl" - fine, let's think that through a second.

Op's son has met this troubled young woman only some months ago. He has impregnated her. He has moved in and out of her apartment repeatedly, retreating to his parents to say all sorts of bad things about her in the interim. All this in just a few months. She's younger than him, technically a teenager. Why did he keep going back? Why does Op describe her as an ex when it seems this pattern is ongoing?

Sorry but there are TWO chaotic and irresponsible young people in this story. The difference is one has the physical power advantage and is older. The other is physically vulnerable not just from being female but she's going to be increasingly heavily pregnant and her own body is the one that's going to bear the damage inherent in pregnancy and childbirth.

Branleuse · 27/04/2022 17:31

zilli · 27/04/2022 14:23

I think she's going to make it very difficult for him although he will see his child but on her terms, he wants us to be involved but he's worried by not dancing to her tune she'll deny him any environment.

He should probably consider that he will have to certainly do some dancing to her tune.

pinkyredrose · 27/04/2022 17:47

Why didn't he use a condom?

0121gmo · 27/04/2022 17:47

running back to Mummy
Telling the OP she's naive to believe her own son
heard of contraception? - has she?

Well seeing these comments aren't directed at the female in the situation!

I'm certain a baby due at their ages is difficult for both of them but people who use children as weapons are disgusting.

I like the suggestion that you offer to buy something for the baby (as I'm sure you will want to anyway) but if she refuses to put him on the birth certificate I would put the maintenance in a separate account until there is a DNA test.

The father might not be 'entitled' to have his name there but the child definitely does!

If the OPs son is also attacking her and smashing up her stuff then the court will find out and access would be supervised. If he is giving a true account of her behaviour then I'd suggest social work involvement tbh, not a good environment for a child. How people can claim he must have pushed her to behave like this is madness! No wonder men don't report abuse.

I feel for you OP, try not to worry too much until the baby is born and try to convince your son to stay away so he is not in another situation like that (although then I'm sure posters will accuse him of leaving a pregnant woman - men can't win!)

Abigail41 · 27/04/2022 17:55

This reply has been deleted

This has been deleted by MNHQ for breaking our Talk Guidelines.

AcrossthePond55 · 27/04/2022 17:58

I'm going to accept your words a face value and assume that your son is in an abusive relationship. The default, male or female, is 'I believe you' so I'm operating under that premise.

He needs to report her assaults, on his person or on his belongings, to the police. And he needs to move home, permanently, regardless of her threats. His access to his child is for the courts to decide. He is too young and too immature at 20 (I assume) to deal with this without support and professional advice. Until the baby is born there is nothing else to be done. He has no rights to be involved in her pregnancy nor to be present at the birth. But reporting and 'building' evidence of her abuse may help him in court access proceedings.

IF she refuses to put him on the BC, 'theoretically' that absolves him legally from having to pay child maintenance (hear me out before flaming, MN!!!) since she is not claiming him as the father. Do you really think she's going to forego financial support? Unless she's from a family who will support her financially, I doubt it. So she either names him on the BC or names him to the CMS to get maintenance. If she names him on the BC (although he must be there at the registration) that establishes parental responsibility. If she names him to CMS, she's 'admitted' paternity and establishing parental responsibility through the courts should be relatively easy. If she does neither then he will need to file his own suit to establish paternity. Following that would be court orders for access to the child AND for him to pay maintenance (as he should) when/if he is able.

No matter which road he ends up taking, a DNA test is in order.

As a grandparent, you have no rights to access. Your access would depend on your son's access. If she refuses to allow you to see the child, your only hope is that your son gains access and you see the child on his time. The rare exception to this is for grandparents who have played a major part in a child's upbringing.

Hospedia · 27/04/2022 17:58

pinkyredrose · 27/04/2022 17:47

Why didn't he use a condom?

Tad redundant at this stage, it's not like he can go and ask for his sperm back is it?

PeaceLurking9to5 · 27/04/2022 18:04

Let the dust settle. Make sure she doesnt feel threatened by you.

The combined force of my x and his mother telling me what to do and insuating i was mad, bad, silly, after money.... it was overwhelming.

If my xmil had shown me respect and kindness i would have welcomed her in our lives.

So that's my advice. Patience, respect. Kindness

azimuth299 · 27/04/2022 18:09

The title is a bit misleading, nobody has seen the grandchild yet!

Your son needs to start saving like mad, both for providing for the baby and for getting some good legal advice on establishing parental responsibility, contact etc.

In answer to the massive drip feed, I would advise him to end the relationship and report any further instances of violence to the police.

To encourage friendliness it might be nice for you to offer to buy the buggy/cot/car seat of her choice, but other than that I think you should take a big step back, or you'll likely be seen as interfering or overbearing. When your son starts to get contact, you can arrange with him times to see the little one.

SuzieQ423 · 27/04/2022 18:09

If a father is not on the birth certificate but would like to have legal rights and access to the child, the best idea is for him to establish paternity to acknowledge he will take legal responsibility of the child. To begin the process, he can sign an affidavit of paternity and file it with the court. This affidavit indicates that he believes he is the father of the child and would like to legally establish himself as such. The mother’s signature on the affidavit is required to establish paternity. If she refuses to sign it, the father can request a DNA test to be completed by an order of the court.
Once paternity is established, the father now has legal rights to the child. Custody, visitation and parental responsibility can be determined with or without the court; this is mostly dependent on the parent’s relationship. If it’s handled by the court, the court will look at all circumstances regarding both parents and make its decision on what is in the best interest of the child.
Birth certificates can also be amended. So, if a father is not listed on the birth certificate at the time of birth, his name can be added to and he may sign the birth certificate at a later time. There is generally a fee to amend the original birth certificate and can take up to a month to receive the amended birth certificate.

GetThatHelmetOn · 27/04/2022 18:13

First of all, why the relationship didn’t work out?, why she doesn’t want him involved? Why does she needs to put under pressure about this when the baby is not yet born?

It is very rare for mums not to want any involvement from the dad if the guy is decent, sensible and reliable so, before taking her to court, could he address those points first?

70isaLimitNotaTarget · 27/04/2022 18:20

Few months on/off relationship ?
DNA yest 100%
Maybe the reason she's being so obstructive is she doesn't want any of you to bond with a baby that isn't his .

Onwards22 · 27/04/2022 18:41

Honestly you all need to stay out of it for the minute.

He can tell her he would like to be there for the scans and birth etc but it’s her choice at this stage.

If they have an aggressive relationship then it may be better to have distance between them anyway.
You need to encourage him to report any violence towards him.

Once the baby is born then he can go to court to get access.

Of course she’s completely in the wrong but don’t stoop to her level. I can guarantee that once the baby is here she’ll be wanting maintenance and help looking after it.

MrsTerryPratchett · 27/04/2022 18:56

It looks like OP has exited the thread so it's all moot anyway.

70isaLimitNotaTarget · 27/04/2022 19:42

pinkyredrose · 27/04/2022 17:47

Why didn't he use a condom?

What makes you think he didn't ?
Were you there ?
Nope . So you don't know .

And no contraception is 100%

Motnight · 27/04/2022 20:02

No wonder the Op has stopped responding. Her son (who is by the sounds of it) is in abusive relationship and he is really criticised on this thread.

OnceMoreWithoutFeeling · 27/04/2022 20:09

So she's violent and unstable and what you're worried about is getting your "share" of this baby?

First thing he needs to do is go to the police and report every incident of violent assault. Then alert social services to her pregnancy as they should be involved from an early stage if she is so violent. It doesn't sound like she's a fit person to raise a child. Maybe it would be good if your son started taking responsibility for his unborn child's safety instead of playing her dysfunctional game with her.

felulageller · 27/04/2022 20:12

She's 18, has her own place and no proper family support?

Has she been in care?

She sounds very traumatised.

That's if this is all true.

I imagine she would have some important points to make if we could hear the other side.

Olsi109 · 27/04/2022 21:31

Motnight · 27/04/2022 20:02

No wonder the Op has stopped responding. Her son (who is by the sounds of it) is in abusive relationship and he is really criticised on this thread.

Agree - really ashamed to be a woman after reading some of the stuff on this thread. Won't put my point across as OP's left and I won't give some of these the satisfaction.

ChoiceMummy · 28/04/2022 06:00

zilli · 27/04/2022 14:45

He's not half hearted at all, he's scared of her kicking and punching him all the time, smashing his car and his TV when she loses her cool and still he's trying to get along with her for the baby but that just means tip toeing on egg shells trying to keep her sweet.
I think he will have access if he plays ball but she doesn't want anyone else involved and if he doesn't comply then she'll make his access very difficult until he does.

Your son needs to report this behaviour to the non emergency police number. This needs to be on record.

Then he simply needs to email/text with regards how the baby is developing and to be informed of the birth.

He needs to request to attend to be added to the birth certificate.

If she doesn't, he will be eeds to apply to court immediately baby is registered without to be added and to have enforced, unsupervised contact with baby. Initially short, frequent contact. Building up to longer periods when weaning. Full days by about a year, overnights by 18-24 months.

Who he sees with the baby is his choice, so of course you can see during his time.

If there's ever a concern that the baby's mum will be aggressive to the child report to police and social services.

Triffid1 · 28/04/2022 10:04

Motnight · 27/04/2022 20:02

No wonder the Op has stopped responding. Her son (who is by the sounds of it) is in abusive relationship and he is really criticised on this thread.

Of course, if he's in an abusive relationship, that's a concern. But OP hasn't expressed concern for her son, or for her grandchild. Only for HER rights to SEE grandchild. She seems quite happy to accept that this young woman is crazy, abusive, violent.... and yet completely uninterested in the safety of her son or grandchild.

Plus, experience tells us that it is far more likely that a man is physically abusive. Reading between the lines, there are also concerns re how vulnerable this woman is - an 18 year old with no family support living alone suggests she has problems.

If she is being violent towards him there is of course no excuse. But the gaps in this story are glaringly obvious.

DifficultBloodyWoman · 28/04/2022 10:17

Reading between the lines, there are also concerns re how vulnerable this woman is - an 18 year old with no family support living alone suggests she has problems.

Reading between the lines, I thought the OP might be a troll after the updates.