To ask why having an elective C-Section is so frowned upon?

[Rosesandbutterflys]

I am (hopefully) having an elective C-Section soon. First baby, don't want anymore children after.

I've always had a fear of child birth, which over the past 5 years has been compounded by a lot of people around me having children and the vast majority of these (though I appreciate I'm probably unlucky here) have been pretty traumatic births that have ended in severe tears, forceps and a lot of the time, an emergency section anyway. Granted their experiences have mostly been better on their second birth/ child.

Nothing and I truly mean nothing about natural childbirth/ labour appeals to me. Not the hours of pain, pushing, potential rips/ tears, forcep intervention, epidural (yes I appreciate I'd have one of these for a section), damage of my pelvic floor and the panic and stress of potentially having to be rushed to theatre because it just wasn't going to happen naturally and the baby is in distress or whatever.

Now don't get me wrong, nothing about a c-section appeals to me either, it's absolutely no walk in the park and I'm dreading it, but it has to come out some way and I am a person that likes to plan things and to somewhat be in control/ aware of the plan. I have also had abdominal surgery before (though not as severe as a C-section) and I know recovery is likely to be painful and slower than if I were to have a natural birth. But for me, this is the preferred/ lesser of the 2 evils option.

I have also spent hours pouring over research as to the benefits of a vaginal birth over a c-section and last night came across a NICE/ NHS study/ research that found that actually, for a planned/ elective c-section, the risk to the mother of a c-section compared to a vaginal birth is pretty much the same. It states that the risk of the baby ending up in NICU with a C-section is 13.9% compared to a vaginal birth which is 6.3%, so double the risk, BUT it says the research does not take into account the fact that most c-sections undertaken are for medical reasons and therefore the likelihood of the baby needing NICU attention after it's born is increased anyway.

It then went on to say that the risks of an unplanned, emergency C-Section are a lot higher than a natural birth/ elective/ planned C-Section. So I guess if each woman was guaranteed to have a straightforward, natural birth, then great, but a lot of women do end up needing an emergency c-section so, technically they are more at risk than someone who has chosen an elective.

This now seems like I am bashing natural delivery and I'm not at all I totally admire and respect women that chose that route, I only wish I were that brave.

However, the responses I have had from people my whole pregnancy when I have admitted I am opting for an elective C-section have been ridiculous. Not one person has responded positively, all I've had is 'Oh, really? Are you sure??' and 'Oh, why on earth would you elect to have that?' etc etc. Or just a stony faced, tight smile and 'oh right' making it clear they disapprove but not actually coming out and saying it.

I got told last night that the reason I'm getting these reactions is because a C-section is 'taking the easy way out '😕

If that's the case, why on earth wouldn't you? Why is it that it seems the prerequisite to being a good mother is seemingly having to martyr yourself all the time?

So many of my friends that have had children and also the women in my NCT class who are preparing for their births have all expressed dismay/ distress at having to have any pain relief, they all want it to be as natural as possible and I know my friends that haven't had 'textbook' births still harbour 'guilt' and sadness to this day. Why? If you need gas and air or an epidural, so what? What exactly am I missing? If they ended/end up with forceps or an emergency section, it's not their fault, it's just one of those things. Surely modern medicine has provided these things to make childbirth safer?

Anyway, gone off on a tangent now but if you disapprove of someone having an elective c-section, could you tell me why?

When you've seen the complications many women go through due to ELCS, you'll realise it's just as much luck of the draw as a vaginal birth.
It's very naive to think you have any kind of agency once you're on the operating table - many things can and do go wrong. Just like for vaginal births.

@LunaLovegoodsNecklace

i think your post was really well written! And I completely agree with everything it said

When you've seen the complications many women go through due to ELCS, you'll realise it's just as much luck of the draw as a vaginal birth.
It's very naive to think you have any kind of agency once you're on the operating table - many things can and do go wrong. Just like for vaginal births.

Oh honestly, do you really think women are that thick that we don't understand this? I actually said in a PP that I believe it's a total lottery as to how things will go, either with a VB or an ELCS.

But come on- you don't see that an ELCS is different with more likely outcomes than attempting a VB with no idea as to whether it will be straightforward, or whether you will need ventouse/forceps/EMCS? Yes things can and do go wrong. But it's very different to VB. And the risk profile is very different- you don't think women are capable of choosing the benefits/risks that that they are personally more comfortable with accepting?

I agree with a lot of posters here. Why not give women choice with what could be a better birth? We have choice for fertility we have choice for improving menopausal symptoms we have a ridiculous number of drugs available to all give us better lives and more choice.

Humans develop to give each other more choices.

A friend of mine is a mother of 4 her first 3 were all vaginal births but her 4th was a
C-section due to medical reasons. She said she has no idea why any woman would choose to have a section over vaginal delivery as the recovery and discomfort from the section was far far worse than her 3 previous natural births if she had a 5th child she would definitely prefer a vaginal delivery. After all that is what a woman's body is designed to do. I myself had an extreme fear of child birth due to horror stories I had heard etc. I'm so glad I conquered my fears and went ahead and had a vaginal delivery, yes it wasn't easy with my first but I did it and felt incredibly proud of myself. And it didn't put me off and I had baby number 2 vaginally too.

Is your friend a creationist?

Also does the fear of having your abdomen cut open and messed about with not put you off. I'd rather have a natural vaginal delivery any day. it's what your body is designed to do.

Neither option is great really is it? You need to find the least worst for your own personal circumstances I reckon.

it's what your body is designed to do.

not particularly well given the staggering proportion of women who've been killed while doing it over the years

I have some shocking news for you.

Not everyone's experience is the same.

You had good experience with vaginal births so wouldn't choose a section. Someone else will have had a bad experience with vaginal births so would rather have a section. Other people have never given birth but perceive the risks for either method differently and that's their right.

Personal stories are just that: personal. Your or your friend's experiences have absolutely zero bearing on how my own birth might go.

I could say that my friend was left with a fourth degree tear which still leaves her with continence issues and a child with cerebral palsy who will never be out of a wheelchair during her vaginal birth due to the baby being starved of oxygen in the birth canal, so why would anyone choose that way of delivery? But I don't say that because that's someone else's experience. But it's a consideration for me whereas others might not see it as a realistic risk factor.

Oh well, good for you and your friend, do you both want medals? 🏅 🏅

You do what's best for you- you don't actually have to understand why anyone else would choose a different mode of delivery than you did- but it says a lot about you if you don't understand that we are not all the same and feel differently to one another for a whole variety of reasons.

We've established on this thread that either mode of delivery can be a lottery. But just as you don't seem to understand why someone would choose a c-section- having a neat incision across my lower abdomen that barely shows was a far better option for me than a labour where I had no control or knowledge of how it would actually end up, and potentially horrific and longs lasting traumatic birth injuries. I'd rather one neat scar on my lower abdomen than a horrible tear all the way to my backside. Each to their own and all that.

You say you 'conquered' your fear- I conquered mine by becoming pregnant in the first place, never mind the deliveries I chose. I'm bloody delighted with my two lovely children, proud of them and the job I've done as their mum and some of the challenges I've dealt with along the way. Their mode of delivery really is quite inconsequential nearly a decade on.

@bigyellowTpot

evidently not when you hear of how so many women are incontinent following vaginal delivery.

Well someone better tell my body it’s pretty shit at “what it was designed to do” since my DD almost died during childbirth. Thank god for EMCS’s.

Good for you that you would rather have a ‘natural’ delivery any day. You get to make your own decisions for your births and other women get to make their own too.

@bigyellowTpot nope. Not one bit.

On the other hand; the thought of tearing my vagina in 2 and not being able to sit, walk or jump on a trampoline without pissing myself and needing laxatives so I don’t tear my vaginal and anal stitches out when having a poo really doesn’t sound appealing!!!

Nope. Wouldn't put me off. I still preferred my c-section (even though it was an emergency one) to either of my two vaginal births.

My vaginal births, particularly the first one, were very traumatic with failed epidural, failing placenta, episiotomy and still severe tearing, high blood pressure and foetal distress. I took months to recover.

I am designed to do that naturally am I? So I should just put up and shut up! No! Quite honestly, I look back and think that I should have had them all by caesarean section, not just my youngest. If I could have my time again then that would be what I would insist on.

When I did my NCT class everyone was saying how they didn't want pain relief and only wanted a 'natural' vaginal birth etc. One woman said she had to have a c-section due to an issue with her spine/pelvis. They all sighed and looked sad for her. When they got to me I said 'I want all the drugs they can give me and an epidural!' They were horrified! I ended up getting all the drugs and a planned c-section in the end. Out of the 11 of us only 2 had a vaginal birth - all others had emergency c-sections apart from me and 1 other planned section. My second child I had to have a section due to placenta previa so there was no other way for him to get out. I had to stay in hospital for 6 days as my boy wasn't gaining weight but I believe that helped my recovery because I really couldn't do anything. Do what ever makes you less stressed as that's better for you and the baby. Once your LO is here most people won't care what route you take.

That's an intro to parenthood...people will frown on everything lol. Get ready for everyone to have an opinion on everything and feel like they can tell you how to do something better.

My MIL's hips are too narrow for natural childbirth so she had to have an emergency section to have my husband and was told there and then that if she ever had another child then she wouldn't be allowed to try a natural birth as it would kill her. So not all women are 'designed' to give birth to babies naturally. I know that it's not the 'norm' but there are bound to be more ladies out there that just can't give birth naturally.

Honestly @bigyellowTpot and others spouting this nonsense about ‘your body knows what to do’ and ‘natural is what your body is made for’ who has filled your heads with this nonsense? Have you no ability to think critically?

Stats earlier in the thread. In 2017 eight hundred women a DAY died in childbirth.

also the blatant hypocrisy. If your body is made to do it why not give birth at home on your own or in a remote cabin somewhere - why are you using NHS resources for midwives and hospital if your body is made to give birth without issue? 🙄

Exactly.

No need for any interventions at all, no forceps or inductions or anything else presumably @bigyellowTpot? In fact no need for any monitoring either.

If anyone ever wondered why there are scandals in maternity care, Shrewsbury and Telford being the latest and most recent one, and the lack of care for women's health generally, the attitude of a number of the posters on this thread shows why. Women are not deemed worthy, it's out and out misogyny.

Sounds like they were unnecessarily tactless, but tbf some of us are built unusually small/tight down there, I am myself. I never had kids but I've always felt I'd have struggled to give birth naturally.

If anyone ever wondered why there are scandals in maternity care, Shrewsbury and Telford being the latest and most recent one, and the lack of care for women's health generally, the attitude of a number of the posters on this thread shows why. Women are not deemed worthy, it's out and out misogyny.

👏 Absolutely. What's even worse about some of the attitudes on this thread is, how does it affect women who are clearly happy to have a VB if other women choose to have a CS? Literally, how does it impact them at all?

This isn’t true - it doesn’t take an anaesthetist away from emergencies. Emergencies are done by the on-call anaesthetist and a separate one is on the rota for routine work. Thus hospital will have a set number of slots for planned sections and employ Staff accordingly. In fact, by not labouring and possibly needing an epidural / emergency section, you are reducing the burden of work for the on call anaesthetist.
As a separate point, yes a section is more expensive for the NHS, but a planned section is much cheaper than an emergency section and someone having an emergency section is likely to have laboured for a while first, which also costs money. So financially, the situation isn’t quite a straight forward as some have made out.