To ask why having an elective C-Section is so frowned upon?

[Rosesandbutterflys]

I am (hopefully) having an elective C-Section soon. First baby, don't want anymore children after.

I've always had a fear of child birth, which over the past 5 years has been compounded by a lot of people around me having children and the vast majority of these (though I appreciate I'm probably unlucky here) have been pretty traumatic births that have ended in severe tears, forceps and a lot of the time, an emergency section anyway. Granted their experiences have mostly been better on their second birth/ child.

Nothing and I truly mean nothing about natural childbirth/ labour appeals to me. Not the hours of pain, pushing, potential rips/ tears, forcep intervention, epidural (yes I appreciate I'd have one of these for a section), damage of my pelvic floor and the panic and stress of potentially having to be rushed to theatre because it just wasn't going to happen naturally and the baby is in distress or whatever.

Now don't get me wrong, nothing about a c-section appeals to me either, it's absolutely no walk in the park and I'm dreading it, but it has to come out some way and I am a person that likes to plan things and to somewhat be in control/ aware of the plan. I have also had abdominal surgery before (though not as severe as a C-section) and I know recovery is likely to be painful and slower than if I were to have a natural birth. But for me, this is the preferred/ lesser of the 2 evils option.

I have also spent hours pouring over research as to the benefits of a vaginal birth over a c-section and last night came across a NICE/ NHS study/ research that found that actually, for a planned/ elective c-section, the risk to the mother of a c-section compared to a vaginal birth is pretty much the same. It states that the risk of the baby ending up in NICU with a C-section is 13.9% compared to a vaginal birth which is 6.3%, so double the risk, BUT it says the research does not take into account the fact that most c-sections undertaken are for medical reasons and therefore the likelihood of the baby needing NICU attention after it's born is increased anyway.

It then went on to say that the risks of an unplanned, emergency C-Section are a lot higher than a natural birth/ elective/ planned C-Section. So I guess if each woman was guaranteed to have a straightforward, natural birth, then great, but a lot of women do end up needing an emergency c-section so, technically they are more at risk than someone who has chosen an elective.

This now seems like I am bashing natural delivery and I'm not at all I totally admire and respect women that chose that route, I only wish I were that brave.

However, the responses I have had from people my whole pregnancy when I have admitted I am opting for an elective C-section have been ridiculous. Not one person has responded positively, all I've had is 'Oh, really? Are you sure??' and 'Oh, why on earth would you elect to have that?' etc etc. Or just a stony faced, tight smile and 'oh right' making it clear they disapprove but not actually coming out and saying it.

I got told last night that the reason I'm getting these reactions is because a C-section is 'taking the easy way out '😕

If that's the case, why on earth wouldn't you? Why is it that it seems the prerequisite to being a good mother is seemingly having to martyr yourself all the time?

So many of my friends that have had children and also the women in my NCT class who are preparing for their births have all expressed dismay/ distress at having to have any pain relief, they all want it to be as natural as possible and I know my friends that haven't had 'textbook' births still harbour 'guilt' and sadness to this day. Why? If you need gas and air or an epidural, so what? What exactly am I missing? If they ended/end up with forceps or an emergency section, it's not their fault, it's just one of those things. Surely modern medicine has provided these things to make childbirth safer?

Anyway, gone off on a tangent now but if you disapprove of someone having an elective c-section, could you tell me why?

For those who talk about the impact that elective sections have on the NHS should maybe çonsider the wider implications which traumatic births have on mothers, and, consequentially, babies. PTSD, difficulty bonding with the baby, difficulty establishing breastfeeding, postpartum depression/anxiety as well as some of the life-limiting physical changes which a complicated vaginal delivery may entail. Birth trauma can impact the entire family and have so many knock on effects.

This is such an important point made by @Thejoyfulstar. How depressing that good physical and mental health for women and their babies is not considered a big enough priority.

@HoppingPavlova

Oh give over with your NHS virtue signalling! As I’ve said before, you can martyr yourself to save the NHS moneyyyy Hun, other woman can and do have the right to select an option which works for them and they are gonna take it! I think you are forgetting that we pay taxes to fund the nhs, it is not ‘free’. After years of womens health being overlooked, women are not going to sacrifice having choices to save the NHS money (crucially not that elective c sections do actually cost more money as loads of posters have explained to you)

@LunaLovegoodsNecklace those were my reasons for having an ELCS. However, some reasons that a woman might have for having an ELCS that I have dont have experience of (thankfully) is having been sexually abused or raped. I am sure that there are women who want to bypass a vaginal birth and all of its invasive procedures, in order to avoid triggering horrendous memories. These women aren't necessarily going to tell Brenda at the Post Office why they have opted for a CS. Nobody knows what is going on inside any woman mentally when she is preparing to give birth, nor the ordeals that she has faced in the past.

I had an emergency section after 2 days of vomiting and excruciating contractions during a failed induction. I was exhausted and in the end they had to do a section. The cord was around my daughter’s neck. It’s likely I would have died and so would my daughter had they not done the section, and I STILL have people telling me I had the easy option because I had a section.

I had such a fear of childbirth my whole life and it put me off conceiving for a long time. and then that absolutely put me off having any more. I wish I’d had the guts to push for an elective section, for my mental health.

Don’t worry about it, people are really weird when it comes to childbirth. Do what’s right for you.

LOL at Ms Self Righteousness over here, electing for a further three caesareans after her first - even if they were medically necessary, your pregnancies weren't, were they? Top grade hypocrisy!

@SpaghettiNotCourgetti I’ve opted for all 3 csections!! They’re amazing births, very calm and lovely environment, super fast recovery, successful breastfeeding and no life long damage like some vaginal births lead to!
If I do have another child, which were still considering, I am 100% having another elective.
maybe I’m too posh to push 😂

Lmao exactly. Four lots of maternity care, including three after a highly complex first delivery, obliging the NHS to continue incurring the costs of your increasingly complex obstetric career? Sit the fuck down!

Honestly if I was in your position and told you'll probably need an emergency section anyway I would definitely have an elective one. The procedure be better being planned for.
People are so judgemental of mothers

I didn’t realise elective c-sections were frowned upon? Who cares what anyone else thinks. I’m pretty sure if men had to give birth the culture around having a lovely natural, drug free labour involving dim lighting and aromatherapy would soon be over.

Fuck that…there’s a reason so many women and babies used to and still do sadly die during childbirth. Giving birth is a dangerous time for women and their babies…you should always have the right to choose whatever options modern medicine has to offer. We’re not living in the dark ages.

It's so true though, isn't it, that there's this strange rhetoric around natural being best when it comes to childbirth. (Although I'm in no way judging anyone who decides that that's right for them.) Surely this is the only area of medicine where this is a thing? I've never heard of anyone being judged for having a hip replacement, for example. That's hardly natural either!

Giving birth is dangerous and painful. If men did it, everyone would have elective sections. The idea that we are supposed to suffer, bleed, tear, endure and somehow ENJOY it is mental, and completely wrapped up in biblical/misogynist bullshit. If people want vaginal births, crack on. But the idea that having one is best just seems bonkers to me.

Ignore people telling you sections are expensive. If you compare a section to a straight forward birth with no long term impacts then yes. But how many of those exist? How much does incontinence cost the NHS? Or years of antidepressants? Or psychologists? It's bollocks.

A lot of women apparently like martyring themselves. Weirdos.

No, If men did it, there would have been a way to incubate a foetus outside the womb and sit on it like a chicken by now, or a way to teleport them out.

My bug bear is when you have a couple and it’s the man saying “we’ve decided against pain relief”.

Oh, we’ve decided! Do fuck off.

If I was with a man who said that, I’d chop his balls off and “we” would decide he didn’t need pain relief for the stitches.

I lost a little boy at 18 weeks 2 days before lockdown. One thing I've really struggled with is the feeling of the lack of control I had while I was giving birth.
I really wanted an elective c section when I got pregnant again and ended up being talked out of it by various consultants. Baby ended up being an emergency C-section anyway after being induced and getting stuck.
Obviously recovery is no walk in the park and it is absolutely not the easy way out as some people seem to think. If we were to have another baby I would absolutely go for an elective c section.

I know you have to do what's best for your baby but I so strongly believe you have to do what is best for you as well. When i was talking to the well being midwife she said your mental health was as much a medical reason for requesting an elective c section as much as a physical one.

I will definitely be advocating for myself next time

@Orcacrazy

im pretty sure that your FOUR children will cost the NHS far, far more money than OP’s elective c- section before you get too pious

@Here4theaibu - I’m so sorry for your loss. You have really had a rough time. I hope you are heard next time!
@LeeMucklowesCurtains - you are absolutely correct that if men had to do the breeding and incubating, they would have “cured” it all by now. (And the years of periods…. ESPECIALLY those!) I remember as I was being wheeled into theatre to have twins by c-section, I started giggling. I make stupid jokes when I’m nervous so I said to my doctor, “You’d think with all the years women have been giving birth, we could have come up with more than two ways to do it! Neither are remotely appealing right now!” He patted me on the head and said “Oh Babe, they’re not gonna come out your elbow.” (He knew just what to say!)

I'm booked for a caesarean in just over a week after a pretty shocking first birth. If I'd known what that first birth was going to be like, I'd have had an ELCS that time, too!

I'm glad to hear that your breastfeeding was successful - it's the only thing that I'm a bit concerned about at the moment. But then, after the forceps and PPH with my 'better' natural delivery, it took days for my milk to come in anyway. I'm hoping that the lack of stress will help!

My sister had elective c section as she thought it was the easier option. It's major surgery duh! Anyway she has bad scar tissue and bits all stuck together internally which cause her daily pain and she has a overhang belly which she hates. She regets her decision and is going for vaginal birth for her second child this year.

Thing is though Peachy, she may have complications arising from that. I have zero issues from my c section 21 years ago. And I was apparently the only one of my mum friend group who could bounce on a trampoline without fear. Personally, if I had to choose a complication, an overhang on my stomach would be my choice ( although appreciate your sister has other issues too).

The thing is, for every 'my vaginal birth/section' was a dream story, there's an equivalent 'my vaginal birth/section was a horror' story to balance it out. That's the whole problem. It's a crapshoot, a gamble, luck. There's some stuff you can do to improve your chances of a straightforward vaginal birth but really most of it ends up totally out of our hands and out of our control, and that's what makes it so scary. You can do everything 'right' and it might not make any difference.

Some risks are controllable, some risks aren't so controllable, and everyone has a different comfort/tolerance/risk level that they are happy with.

My personal experience was that I had assumed I would have a vaginal birth, ended up having an emergency section, was surprised that it wasn't as bad as I had imagined and for my second, I feel more comfortable with a known quantity and the controllable risks from a section so am having an ELCS. For me, the risks of lifelong damage to me or damage to the baby from getting stuck without oxygen etc., as sadly happened to a friend's DC, is higher than the risks I perceive from a section. If I was told I was guaranteed a smooth, fast vaginal birth with no lasting issues then sign me up! But no one can guarantee that.

For others, their perception and tolerance of risks will totally differ.

The key point is informed choice. My consultant said she had to tell me the risks of sections but that she could also give me a list of risks for vaginal births too. There is no 'safe' option. Childbirth is not safe. Women still die in this country during childbirth. Let's not lose sight of that.

And you're damn right I will be 'selfish' about my own health and that of my child. It's the one thing I think we are more than entitled to be selfish about because it's our lives, and a botched birth or traumatic injuries to ourselves or baby will result in potentially a lifetime of struggles. I'm not a big NHS user, thankfully I've been fortunate enough to have been healthy up till now and not required much in the way of resources, but I have no guilt in requesting a section and using resources this way, because we have to advocate for our own selves and frankly the cost to the NHS is not my number one priority when thinking about my own life and future.

I think women who have ELCS because they "like to be in control" are in for a very hard time once the baby is born. With children, not much is actually truly under your control, and that starts with pregnancy and birth.
Giving birth comes with a loss of control, as does life with children in general.

I think women who have ELCS because they "like to be in control" are in for a very hard time once the baby is born.

I absolutely cannot understand why you think a traumatic vaginal birth would better set these women up better for motherhood than a calm ELCS.

We all adjust to parenthood. What on earth would be wrong with starting in a way that makes most sense for you?

@HistoricMoment

well that’s bollocks isn’t it?

If a woman is selecting a c section to have more control it will be to have control over things like forceps, tearing, etc. You don’t really have that to think about and try and control when the baby is born do you?! Completely different.

Again it’s like there’s a whole view some people have that going through ‘’natural’ labour is a badge of honour, what you do to earn the privilege of being a parent, the more painful it is the better a mother you will be. Bollocks. I just don’t subscribe to that. Women can do whatever they want, if they think that a c section is easier for them, offers them more control whatever they can and should go for it and fuck the judgemental types

What utter trash- mainly because there are choices that are available. In the modern world, unlike 1000 years ago, there are different options available. It is possible to choose a mode of delivery these days, giving women control.

You don't seem to understand that women who want to choose the type of delivery they have, to have some control over what happens to them in this instance, are perfectly capable of understanding that in other situations, they will not be able to have control? Stop trying to belittle and infantilise women.

Funnily enough, women might just struggle less when their baby arrives if they are in good physical and mental health. I absolutely breezed through the newborn stage, ever since really. I was absolutely terrified of a VB and once I'd reached the date of my ELCS and my babies had been born, I was just elated to have had the deliveries I wanted. I went into motherhood so absolutely relieved and happy following their births. I'm so sad to see stories when other women have had horrific experiences- mainly due to poor care, not being listened to, their wishes not being respected. Really does feel that some posters on here almost enjoy reading about others struggling and think women ought to just suffer, even with better options available.

That was written so badly but honestly I'm so sick of the misogyny from other women on these threads. Bad enough when it comes from men, it feels unforgivable to me when it's other women doing it.