To ask why having an elective C-Section is so frowned upon?

[Rosesandbutterflys]

I am (hopefully) having an elective C-Section soon. First baby, don't want anymore children after.

I've always had a fear of child birth, which over the past 5 years has been compounded by a lot of people around me having children and the vast majority of these (though I appreciate I'm probably unlucky here) have been pretty traumatic births that have ended in severe tears, forceps and a lot of the time, an emergency section anyway. Granted their experiences have mostly been better on their second birth/ child.

Nothing and I truly mean nothing about natural childbirth/ labour appeals to me. Not the hours of pain, pushing, potential rips/ tears, forcep intervention, epidural (yes I appreciate I'd have one of these for a section), damage of my pelvic floor and the panic and stress of potentially having to be rushed to theatre because it just wasn't going to happen naturally and the baby is in distress or whatever.

Now don't get me wrong, nothing about a c-section appeals to me either, it's absolutely no walk in the park and I'm dreading it, but it has to come out some way and I am a person that likes to plan things and to somewhat be in control/ aware of the plan. I have also had abdominal surgery before (though not as severe as a C-section) and I know recovery is likely to be painful and slower than if I were to have a natural birth. But for me, this is the preferred/ lesser of the 2 evils option.

I have also spent hours pouring over research as to the benefits of a vaginal birth over a c-section and last night came across a NICE/ NHS study/ research that found that actually, for a planned/ elective c-section, the risk to the mother of a c-section compared to a vaginal birth is pretty much the same. It states that the risk of the baby ending up in NICU with a C-section is 13.9% compared to a vaginal birth which is 6.3%, so double the risk, BUT it says the research does not take into account the fact that most c-sections undertaken are for medical reasons and therefore the likelihood of the baby needing NICU attention after it's born is increased anyway.

It then went on to say that the risks of an unplanned, emergency C-Section are a lot higher than a natural birth/ elective/ planned C-Section. So I guess if each woman was guaranteed to have a straightforward, natural birth, then great, but a lot of women do end up needing an emergency c-section so, technically they are more at risk than someone who has chosen an elective.

This now seems like I am bashing natural delivery and I'm not at all I totally admire and respect women that chose that route, I only wish I were that brave.

However, the responses I have had from people my whole pregnancy when I have admitted I am opting for an elective C-section have been ridiculous. Not one person has responded positively, all I've had is 'Oh, really? Are you sure??' and 'Oh, why on earth would you elect to have that?' etc etc. Or just a stony faced, tight smile and 'oh right' making it clear they disapprove but not actually coming out and saying it.

I got told last night that the reason I'm getting these reactions is because a C-section is 'taking the easy way out '😕

If that's the case, why on earth wouldn't you? Why is it that it seems the prerequisite to being a good mother is seemingly having to martyr yourself all the time?

So many of my friends that have had children and also the women in my NCT class who are preparing for their births have all expressed dismay/ distress at having to have any pain relief, they all want it to be as natural as possible and I know my friends that haven't had 'textbook' births still harbour 'guilt' and sadness to this day. Why? If you need gas and air or an epidural, so what? What exactly am I missing? If they ended/end up with forceps or an emergency section, it's not their fault, it's just one of those things. Surely modern medicine has provided these things to make childbirth safer?

Anyway, gone off on a tangent now but if you disapprove of someone having an elective c-section, could you tell me why?

OP, I’m with you on the elective C-section. There is no badge of honour in suffering. I was totally into natural birth - I blame NCT for brainwashing and reading stupid books about women who gave birth and orgasmed - I even went and walked around a wood in early labour!

Then I had the most awful labour 36 hours, 9cm that ended in an emergency c-section. I felt like a failure.

I went for a VBAC for my second that was equally as bad - I was sick the entire time and the acid burnt my oesophagus, which meant I was breastfeeding, ravenous and couldn’t eat food for 3 weeks after. They had to cut me and use forceps to get my son out. Weirdly it was sort of healing after the trauma of the 1st though. I realised I’d had PTSD after that one.

I would definitely have an elective c section if I had another one. But that’s the journey I’ve been on. Im not sure I would have chosen that first but if that’s how you feel - do it. Don’t listen to all that crap about natural birth!

Oh and a friend pointed out to me after my C-section - at least your undercarriage is still intact! Which is not to be underestimated. Once you’ve pushed a baby out of there, it’s never really quite the same!

I’ve had 4 c/s after my 1st at 28 weeks I wasn’t allowed to try a natural birth.
I would never have chosen a c/s .I personally think it’s selfish , cost and staff wise to the NHS.
In this post covid situation where staff levels are at an all time low an elective operation that could be avoided is selfish.
Wanting to have your body cut open layers of skin muscles (the uterus is a muscle) and tissue cut actually wanting to have the scar is incomprehensible to me.

RTFT.

Wanting an elective c section is something I thought about being a teenager pre children. It was something only celebs or people with money really did.
Having had two natural births I honestly can’t understand why people would elect to have themselves sliced in half on the operating table. Plus the recovery time is longer and you’ll struggle to get up, move around, use the toilet and even feed the baby. I witnessed this on the birth ward and it was awful I felt so bad for those mums who needed a specialist midwife next to them helping with EVERYTHING.
if you can and there aren’t health risks informing your decision I can’t see why you wouldn’t have a natural vaginal birth.
the mentality of being scared is so wrong and immature

Wow you're so mature and clever aren't you @Hmm1234 yet you can't understand that other women feel differently to you, for a myriad of reasons? Your final comment is really disgusting.

I had a section after a failed induction. I absolutely didn't want one because I know the recovery can be brutal. I don't think its the easy way out at all!

Read the thread. That is not the experience of most of us who had ELCS.

Apologies...my reply was meant for @Hmm1234 .

Absolute shyte new forum...can't even quote 😡

You are vile.

I do have a medical need for one but even if I didn’t, I’d still opt for one because there is NOTHING to be gained from being a martyr. And funny, because half my friends have ended up with EMCS and have been fine after, sore yes, but certainly didn’t need a specialist midwife helping them with everything and even if I do, it’s a risk I’m prepared to take and has absolutely nothing to do with maturity levels. Your response on the other hand...

I had a very quick first labour but it happened that fast I ended up with a 3c degree tear and me being taken away from my baby to go to theatre. Second time round to avoid further damage I had to have an elcs. I absolutely don't ever want to experience the pain or recovery of a csection ever again. I went in with lots of research and was still not mentally prepared for the aftermath of a csection. It absolutely is not an easy way out and I absolutely will not ever have one again, therefore no more babies for me! The recovery from natural birth is generally a lot quicker (not just in my instance)

I didn’t say I didn’t understand as I thought like that while I was in my early 20s pre having children. Completely stand by my point why bother having children if you’re ‘too scared’ and the c section is not based on medical reasons. Have a good evening x

You don't make enough sense for your views to be worth considering.

You asked for the opinion. Sounds like your minds already made up but you chose to post on mumsnet looking for internet validation. Have a good evening x

Why bother having children if you’re too scared?! Because obviously the birth is EVERYTHING and actually raising the child is irrelevant.

Who gives a shit whether I want to endure the pain of a natural birth or the pain of a c-section?! Why does it matter to you how someone else’s child comes into the world?

To say you can only be a mother if you endure a VBAC birth is disgusting.

@Hmm1234 - round of applause for you! Having had a caesarean I can say I didn’t need any help taking me to the bathroom. I was able to walk myself. Whereas the lady next to me who’s aresehole was ripped and required stitches needs someone to walk her to and from the bathroom.

very immature of you to call people like the op immmature.

@Noodles4Me - no worries!

I think something odd goes on regarding discussions about c-sections. I suppose partly because the NHS would prefer the cheapest option but I think some women also become fixated on the idea of natural births with no intervention, as if anything else is a fail. I don't really understand why. We are very lucky in this country to have access to medical intervention and therefore a low maternal mortality rate.
My DCs were both c.sections - the first an emergency and the second because I was ill. Both were absolutely fine and, contrary to expectations, both DCs immediately latched on and successfully breastfed.
Why surprised me though, was the number of women who felt sorry for me. I simply couldn't understand why as I was very grateful for the interventions. The births felt very magical (rabbit coming out a hat came to mind), my babies were healthy and although I spent around five days in bed, that
time felt like a wonderful opportunity to simply

... gaze at my babies.

There is much research that shows that vaginal delivery is better for the long term health of the baby:

1. Your Baby Will Receive Beneficial Bacteria.

As your baby passes through your birth canal, it ingests bacteria that contributes to its gut health and boosts its immune system. Although a baby’s microbiome – or collection of microbes – begins to form in the womb, vaginal delivery is an essential part of the process.
Some studies have found that babies born by C-section who miss out on these crucial bacteria are more susceptible to health problems such as food allergies, asthma, hay fever and obesity later in life. Researchers from the Department of Medicine at the NYU School of Medicine were successful in partially restoring the microbiome of C-section babies by exposing them to their mothers’ birth canal bacteria at birth, but it remains to be seen whether it will have a long-term impact on their health.

The fact is the NHS put pressure on women to follow ‘natural’ birth plans, even for the detriment of maternal health, because it is cost-saving. I have experienced this first hand. It’s not right. All my friends who have given birth vaginally under the NHS were left with life altering birth injuries of varying degrees. That’s obviously
not all births, I think my circle have been really unlucky. But even so. It’s cruel and pointless. Tbh they way they treat C-section patients is also mental. You wouldn’t chuck anyone else out of hospital so soon after major surgery,
or demand they be up marching up and down within the hour.

I have had two planned but medically necessary C-sections, not in the Uk. They were perfect. I healed well and was give ample time to heal. My health was paramount. More women should be allowed to choos a C-section without feeling huge guilt and pressure. But then again the current nhs system fails women abysmally.

But you’ve had 4 of them?

Philosophical question -

If it’s selfish and ‘incomprehensible’ to choose a cs, is it also selfish and incomprehensible to get pregnant knowing that you will have to have a cs, like you did?

See how I can be judgmental too?

I had an EMCS, so the morally ok sort where you try to huff it out first, and then a haemorrhage, and I still made it to the bog just fine by myself in postnatal. Perhaps I'm just exceptionally gifted at urination.

@Hmm1234 I have had 3 c sections. Never struggled moving around, going to the toilet or feeding my babies. How bizarre this is your only outlook on a c section.
I was up and about same day, had a shower, breastfed all my babies with no issues, home the next day, walking normally and generally absolutely fine.
I feel sorry for the millions of woman whose vaginas are ripped apart and the problems they have going to the toilet, having sex and even sitting down after. I feel sorry for the millions of women who tear back to front and need physio.
I feel sorry for the millions of women who have such traumatic vaginal births they have PTSD.
I also feel sorry for the children born to small minded women :)

Nah, there isn't. Even the extract you've quoted doesn't say that.

What we know about the microbiome is that it's different for vaginally born and CS born babies. That's it. Anyone who tells you one of these types of microbiome is better than the other is bullshitting. This also ignores the fact that even if we did know, the microbiome would only be one of many health measures.

@HellieOldie

Babies born by caesarean section have different gut bacteria to those born vaginally – but the differences largely disappear by the time the babies are between 6 and 9 months old. That’s according to the largest study into the effects of birth mode on the microbiome.