To ask why having an elective C-Section is so frowned upon?

[Rosesandbutterflys]

I am (hopefully) having an elective C-Section soon. First baby, don't want anymore children after.

I've always had a fear of child birth, which over the past 5 years has been compounded by a lot of people around me having children and the vast majority of these (though I appreciate I'm probably unlucky here) have been pretty traumatic births that have ended in severe tears, forceps and a lot of the time, an emergency section anyway. Granted their experiences have mostly been better on their second birth/ child.

Nothing and I truly mean nothing about natural childbirth/ labour appeals to me. Not the hours of pain, pushing, potential rips/ tears, forcep intervention, epidural (yes I appreciate I'd have one of these for a section), damage of my pelvic floor and the panic and stress of potentially having to be rushed to theatre because it just wasn't going to happen naturally and the baby is in distress or whatever.

Now don't get me wrong, nothing about a c-section appeals to me either, it's absolutely no walk in the park and I'm dreading it, but it has to come out some way and I am a person that likes to plan things and to somewhat be in control/ aware of the plan. I have also had abdominal surgery before (though not as severe as a C-section) and I know recovery is likely to be painful and slower than if I were to have a natural birth. But for me, this is the preferred/ lesser of the 2 evils option.

I have also spent hours pouring over research as to the benefits of a vaginal birth over a c-section and last night came across a NICE/ NHS study/ research that found that actually, for a planned/ elective c-section, the risk to the mother of a c-section compared to a vaginal birth is pretty much the same. It states that the risk of the baby ending up in NICU with a C-section is 13.9% compared to a vaginal birth which is 6.3%, so double the risk, BUT it says the research does not take into account the fact that most c-sections undertaken are for medical reasons and therefore the likelihood of the baby needing NICU attention after it's born is increased anyway.

It then went on to say that the risks of an unplanned, emergency C-Section are a lot higher than a natural birth/ elective/ planned C-Section. So I guess if each woman was guaranteed to have a straightforward, natural birth, then great, but a lot of women do end up needing an emergency c-section so, technically they are more at risk than someone who has chosen an elective.

This now seems like I am bashing natural delivery and I'm not at all I totally admire and respect women that chose that route, I only wish I were that brave.

However, the responses I have had from people my whole pregnancy when I have admitted I am opting for an elective C-section have been ridiculous. Not one person has responded positively, all I've had is 'Oh, really? Are you sure??' and 'Oh, why on earth would you elect to have that?' etc etc. Or just a stony faced, tight smile and 'oh right' making it clear they disapprove but not actually coming out and saying it.

I got told last night that the reason I'm getting these reactions is because a C-section is 'taking the easy way out '😕

If that's the case, why on earth wouldn't you? Why is it that it seems the prerequisite to being a good mother is seemingly having to martyr yourself all the time?

So many of my friends that have had children and also the women in my NCT class who are preparing for their births have all expressed dismay/ distress at having to have any pain relief, they all want it to be as natural as possible and I know my friends that haven't had 'textbook' births still harbour 'guilt' and sadness to this day. Why? If you need gas and air or an epidural, so what? What exactly am I missing? If they ended/end up with forceps or an emergency section, it's not their fault, it's just one of those things. Surely modern medicine has provided these things to make childbirth safer?

Anyway, gone off on a tangent now but if you disapprove of someone having an elective c-section, could you tell me why?

Yup and what’s more of a priority than female health?

Some women are left with birth injuries that stops them from being fully continent, being able to enjoy sex, being able to run and exercise.

Honestly, what could be more of a priority??

Countries where large sections of the female population have no or limited access to modern health care still have very high rates of maternal death and death of babies due to childbirth.

We are not designed to have babies, we are evolved. And its an evolutionary trade off between the advantages of large brain in human babies and the risk this creates to the mother (and child) at birth. We've evolved to the point where the high death rates are 'justified' by the benefits of a large brain.

I was offered an elective . I turned it down because I wanted to go natural. Ended up having complications and an emergency section I wasn't awake for. I wish I'd done the elective. This is your birthing experience don't let anyone shame you

The way you deliver your baby into this world is between you & your doctors @Rosesandbutterflys .

Honestly, I’ve never asked any pregnant woman how are they planning on doing it, are people really having these conversations and then give you their opinions ??

I can only imagine that they are either coming from a place of having super easy VB or the opposite, they suffered complications and they don’t think it’s fair you’ve got a different, “easier” options.

Id just stop discussing it with anyone but your doctors OP, it’s not their vaginas and baby’s health/life at stake.

I've had two c-sections and they were easy. Pain killers meant I had no pain. I wasn't tired or exhausted after giving birth. I recovered quickly. I genuinely found them positive experiences.

With my first elective section (second section overall) I had my baby at 9am and was allowed to be discharged at 9am the following morning although I opted to stay another night as DC wasnt great at feeding. I was up and walking roughly five hours after delivery once the spinal wore off and staff were insistent on this as its better for your recovery to be mobile and a shuffle around the room is preferable to lying in bed, I had a shower 8hrs post-delivery and it was heavenly. The only painkillers given by the hospital were paracetamol and ibuprofen (same as when I had a different abdominal surgery a few years ago) and this was enough. This was fairly common as almost all the caesarean mums in my MN baby bus had similar experiences. I went for a pub lunch the day after being discharged, slow walk from the passenger door to the pub door while DH carried the car seat then sitting at the table was no more strenuous than a slow walk from my living room to my dining room and sitting at my own table. I had a very careful walk around the shopping centre at day five because DS had a party to go to at the softplay there. Obviously no one should be overexerting themselves post-surgery or pushing their body beyond its limits but being in immense pain, a lengthy hospital stay, and heavy duty painkillers aren't a universal caesarean experience.

I don't know about 12 inch incisions either, a typical incision fir a caesarean is roughly four to six inches - even my 9lb transverse baby was able to exit via a four inch incision.

just on your point about risk:

a. It’s true the risks of surgery don’t apply to vaginal birth but if you try for a vaginal birth, there is a significant risk of needing an emergency section which is riskier than an elective one

b. There are risks to vaginal birth which don’t apply to sections, like tearing though your clitoris, or up through your anal sphincter. The damage to women’s genitals is avoided by caesarean.

c. Some increased risks to baby of caesareans, eg needing NICU, not having the microbiome etc. These are more likely but less damaging than the risk to the baby of hypoxic brain injury in vaginal birth. That is far less likely but catastrophic if it does happen. There are babies who died at birth, or have significant brain injury, that would be alive if they had been born by caesarean. That gets skipped over a lot. So which is riskier for baby depends on how you evaluate risks. I know someone who was low risk and this happened to her so I have a bit of a bug near about this!

d. C-sections are invasive in that it is open rather than laparoscopic. Not sure I agree “few” operations are as invasive though but in any case, for women without contra-indications for surgery, sections are very safe. I personally consider a caesarean less invasive than having my vagina cut open with scissors and someone shoving forceps up me to yank my baby out but I quite genuinely can see why people would rather a vaginal birth and that plenty of vaginal births go smoothly and give women an experience they are pleased with.

e. Lots of women have far easier recoveries from caesareans than vaginas births. It just depends.

I know from your post that you agree that vaginal birth and caesareans and both valid birth choices, but i am just responding on the risk point.

Do what's right for you, and never mind what other people think.

HOWEVER, just bear in mind the possibility that it doesn't happen as planned. If the baby decides to arrive early, it might be best to be open to the possibility of natural birth - prem babies are often both quicker and easier; if the baby is well on its way by the time you turn up at hospital, it may not make sense to try and get you into theatre as an emergency.

Don't be ridiculous, 100% caesarean deliveries would never happen as some women will always choose Option A and others will always choose Option B with some having to accept the alternative to whichever they wanted due to unforseen circumstances. However all women should have the choice for which method of delivery they want.

If it ever did come down to 100% caesarean rate then staffing levels would adapt to accommodate it, the surgeries would not be taking staff away from emergencies and other services because the NHS would allocate staff based on the fore-knowledge that all deliveries would be caesareans.

@OnlyFoolsnMothers

so what if she is picking it because it’s the easiest? What’s the problem with that?
will she go on to be a better mother if she picks the easier/less painful option?

This. Imagine if everyone having a baby had elective caesareans? This would leave a shortage of surgeons etc for emergency situations/sections.

Yes! Imagine all those poor neurosurgeons unable to operate on stroke patients because they've been forced down to maternity again. The corridors will be full of thwarted orthopods and cardiothoracic surgeons who're just doing caesarean after caesarean instead of the surgery they're trained for

Our (large) hospital has two theatres for caesareans - one for elective and one for emergency - which are staffed as you'd expect.

I'm booked for a caesarean in a couple of weeks because I'm not keen to repeat my no pain relief shitshow of a vaginal birth experience. I can't wait for it. I'm sure that a straightforward vaginal birth is no more than a couple of hours of discomfort, but I haven't experienced this personally and so have decided to try again a different way this time. It's been really interesting, actually, to see how many women have had c sections and don't mention it - I feel like I'm joining this clandestine society. Half of the women I know had a vaginal delivery first, and then a caesarean subsequently because their 'natural', 'normal' births were so traumatic and / or debilitating. The only person I've had comments from is MIL, who basically breathed four babies out and thinks that pain relief in labour means you don't get the full experience and so shouldn't be used. She's also full of what I won't be able to do after a c section, conveniently overlooking that after pushing for four hours, having an episiotomy and instrumental delivery and then a PPH, I wasn't in a fit state to do much more than exist in shell shock for a while after DD was born. At least this time round I'll have had a night's sleep beforehand.

I feel like some people's c-sections are from a different planet to mine. Having one at 9 am and allowed to go home at 9am the next.

I couldn't easily get out of bed at 9am the next day, let alone walk to the car and get in and out of it, and the rest of the ward were not much better. Sorry to be blunt, but it did really feel exactly like it was, like someone had cut a great hole across my middle.

Anyway, I am glad I had it because other breech DC wouldn't necessarily be here (despite NCT crap about turning babies (not this baby was not for turning, though neither of us benefited from 2 rough hours of trying)). Just a making a counter point to people saying my body was designed to safely birth a breech baby and a 'natural' birth would have been better for my DC's lungs and those saying they skipped out of hospital a day later and were back at the gym after 14.

Do what will give your baby and you the best chance of survival and good health, not what the NCT tell you. And don't think an 'elective' C-section is a choice and and 'emergency' C-section is not. Usually an 'elective' C-section is just as necessary as an 'emergency' C-section, it is just the some has seen the emergency coming and planned properly for it.

I wonder if the people spouting how our bodies are 'made for childbirth' apply their ridiculous creationist theory to everything else in their lives. Who made your bodies, btw? I was under the impression we'd evolved, and that our current rates of mortality when birthing without adequate care were down to the obstetric dilemma.

Utter tosh to believe some magic person 'made' our body and designed it for a purpose. Says everything about your worldview.

Incredibly insulting and downright cruel to say that when so many women die in childbirth every single day. Guessing their bodies were faulty, or maybe whoever build your body (god i'm guessing) was half asleep at the wheel.

I’m 3 weeks on from my unplanned csection. It pisses me off that people think it’s an easy option. The recovery is horrific

Staffing resources are allocated based on predicted demand. For maternity they know based on averages roughly how many emergencies to expect and its accounted fornin the staffing levels. At the hospital where I worked and had my DC one theatre/team was always kept available for emergencies and electives were booked in using staggered time slots so that you have ine team in pre-op stage, one team in operation stage, and one team in post-op stage with no overlap between them so if the emergency team was occupied and an emergency came in then the pre-op team could postpone their planned case (patient leapfrogged by the emergency) or the post-op team could handover to the ward staff and take the emergency, by which time the next team would be free for the next emergency.

It would be very rare for all teams to be occupied and for there to be absolutely no one available to perform an emergency surgery. That would almost certainly result in an enquiry. We had on-call teams from elsewhere in the hospital who could be called if it came down to there being no one available but, in my experience, we never had to use them.

A c section is a harder choice due to recovery, major surgery and the risks associated with it.

What i think is frowned upon is that some people make this choice without actually making an informed decision with all the facts.

Modern medicine is a wonderful thing, however can have detrimental effects when used if ITS NOT REQUIRED. eg Epidural, coached pushing, intervention, c sections.

That isnt me saying there is no place for it, of course there is and i know that modern medicine will have saved millions of mothers and babies.

However, the safest option if your a healthy woman/pregnancy/baby is a natural birth..and thats just pure fact.

It is your right to have a c section, and it is other peoples right to have negative or positive opinions on your choice.

They are just opinions.

Has anyone actually said it's the easy option?

I've had both , neither are a walk in the park but the recovery was much quicker from vaginal episiotomy north with ventouse than c section but I was less scared and traumatised from the c section .
I'm just very glad I won't be doing either again but also I know women who go into labour and come home with babies hours later so it's possible but just not for me .
I had pre eclampsia both times so this obvs didn't help..
I hate everyone having an opinion and couldn't give a shiny shite who thinks what ,, we all got through it alive and that's the main thing .

Do what you want and think is best bit it boils down to money really as the c section costs wayyyy more .

So many of these answers are assuming it is easier . I had three straightforward home births, no tearing, fast recoveries- I suspect easier than a C section. I’m the opposite of OP in that for me control was being in my own home, having continuity of care and not having to be one of many in a hospital.

@SexyPortugese OP literally said it in her first post?

I got told last night that the reason I'm getting these reactions is because a C-section is 'taking the easy way out '😕

In RL I’ve found it’s women who have needed a c-section (usually emergency) and had a tough time of it, who seem to take offense to the idea of women choosing one with no ‘medical need’. I’m guessing it’s a combination of not understanding why some may actively choose what they found traumatic, or maybe that it somehow invalidates their own feelings of trauma/going through something tough?

I think of C section vs vaginal birth the same as formula vs BF.

one is easy in the short term (c-section and formula) but imo both of those are more work in the long term.

I've experienced all 4 BTW, and if I were to have a 3rd baby I'd be requesting an elective section. Its so hard in the 2 weeks following birth, but gets easier after that!

Forgot to say, I don't judge either, my section baby was breech and big, so in the end I was glad I didn't have to push him out my vag!

I was home 28 hours after my ELCS. Walking fine, everything fine apart from trying to get up from a laying position...that took four days to master. I was driving after 16 days.

Maybe it depends on the procedure itself, but mine was straightforward. Baby's breathing great, fed fine, bonded fine.

No stomach muscles cut, "just" separated. 😧

I'll do it all again if I have another.

The anaethetist will be covering maternity . This is accounted for . They will not be taken from emergency surgery as others will be covering that. It is wrong of you to suggest that. Also in regards to the original post getting my baby here safely was my priority. Didnt matter if it was vaginal or csection. It was vaginal fyi but had written i green notes that I wanted anything done to ensure child was born safely no matter what.