to think that some people just don't get poverty?

[Ohsoworried]

I've seen a few posts recently where people earning a fair bit of money (think around 100k a year) are complaining that they're struggling with money, don't have enough etc. I DO understand that it is all relative but equally, for people like me on a low low wage, in insecure housing, wondering how I'm going to pay rent, having to stop paying in to my pension for the extra £30 a month etc it does make me cringe a little. Things are a little better for me at the moment but it has been hard and my secondment is up soon so back down to low pay. When I left my abusive ex I was living in poverty. And when I mean poverty I mean in a refuge, no job because I had to relocate, no money for a deposit to rent etc. It's the choice between being able to downsize your house, not go on holiday for a couple of years, make sacrifices but still live comfortably etc, compared with not knowing if you'll be able to afford your bills. Of course I'm generalising and I'm sure there are people out there who are genuinely on high wages but have high mortgage payments etc who are struggling. I do sympathise. But I don't always think this is the case...

Poverty is relative.
It's not a continuum.
It's not only those on low incomes in poverty.
It's not only those in insecure homes in poverty.
It's across all ages, social strata, regions.
The differences are how you perceive it.
I know plenty of people who have lived in poverty in their "big homes" (not even talking naice big homes either just sufficient bedrooms for their needs) which were going to be bankrupted.

What does irk me, and we all know them, is the person complaining about their situations, when really it's just priorities. They're opting to still do xyz when I'm not, so I'm apparently better off than them... Whereas I prefer to save and do more for less. Eg I take out a tea in a flask, they want to have coffees out. So I save there and over the course of time, can afford to take my child somewhere, so I'm then rolling in it as a result of taking picnics with us etc, whilst they've paid Starbucks and Costs etc!

Being poor as the adult responsible for paying the bills is different to growing up in poverty.
I meant real poverty, as in the third world poverty. Say, when you have to look after family cow from the age of 6, bring water from a well, and lots of your free time is spent subsistence farming, that kind of stuff.

I agree with this. I have never lived in poverty, and although I can comprehend what poverty entails, I cannot fully "get it". I have also never been Kim Kardashian, and I can guess what that is like, but I cannot fully "get it". As long as people a sympathetic I don't think we can expect everyone to get every situation.

A few years ago I saw 3 people leave the food bank with a carrier bag. They sat together on a bench and ate a raw, unwashed carrot each, then broke up a cauliflower and started to eat that. I doubt they were worrying about their annual holiday.

I think some people dont realise that they are poor as a result of the choices they have made. They have chosen to max out the mortgage on an expensive home which is also expensive to run, chosen to send the children to private school, chosen to go on expensive holidays.

These people frustrate me.

I find it really offensive when people say "oh, rich people have problems too"

But what is rich? I am sure if I told you our combined salary you'd say we are rich. Yet our expenses we have no choice in mean we don't have holidays, haven't had even a weekend away in 20 years (different to the breadline single mum who posted that makes sure they at least get a weekend away - I don't see you in true poverty if you are managing that, just FYI). We buy cheap cloths and avoid aircon or heating and stress about the bill coming. I do my groceries online so I can see the cost at checkout to save the embarrassment of a calculator in store.... It's all relative because we do not know what circumstances others have to know if what they make means that's what they take home and live in luxury on.
We have friend who have a child who is chronically ill. Their take home pay is mid 6 figures but the cost for treatment for this child is so extreme the rest of the family live off very little. But it they told you their salary you'd scoff. So your comments could be offensive as being well off is very different to take home pay. Every situation is different. BUT what I get from this thread is that some people think because their income is so small they are more hard up than someone like them without even knowing the situation. Both sides can't see the other side because it's all a competition about whose worse off.
Trust me the family I know would give anything to be in the situation of someone on low income than in their situation with a critically ill child still living off the same as someone in poverty but on paper brings in more. Plus added stress of a child who likely won't survive.

If anything this thread highlights the value people in poverty put on income as if people ear ing more have to be living it up... Which shows a very narrow view of the same thing they accuse others of. Sympathy is zero from my end based on this thread. You have no idea. Yes some people who earn a lot have no idea but NOT ALL people who earn a lot are in the same situation... Very generalised responses from certain posters who can't see beyond their own noses then wonder why people show them no sympathy..... Deserve it with that attitude.

Oh absolutely. And we're still seeing that lack of understanding now.

Whenever discussion about testing comes up, and some posters explain that they can't afford either £2 per test for everyone in the family every time they have anything that might be a covid symptom plus possible wage loss if required by work to stay off thereafter or keep a DC off school, they're invariably met by someone telling them what awful human beings they are. Because being too poor for altruism is inconvenient.

It's the 2022 version of people in decent houses with space and gardens trotting out 'stay the fuck at home' while they get things delivered from Amazon and Just Eat. Completely clueless.

I have to be honest that I didn’t understand real poverty, mainly because I have never experienced it & I hope I never do but I realised it recently when my daughter had a friend over & when I asked her what she would like for dinner she said beans please because that’s what she has for dinner every night as her mum can’t afford meat. I could have cried for her & then I felt guilty for feeling sorry for her. I would love to help her family but it’s likely it will seem patronising.

You know nothing about me or my life or my health issues

So...right back Atcha!

Your post reminds me of that man on Question Time just before the 2019 general election...

He was complaining about his £50k salary. One of the members of the panel pointed out his earnings were in the top 5% and he absolutely refused to believe it.

Total denial. It was fascinating to watch.

If you earn that you are in the top 5% earners on the UK.

Fact.

It may not feel like it to you but that's down to government mismanagement and giving £billions to their mates, not the fault of poor folk.

How you feel about your wealth is irrelevant. Imagine a carer on nmw watching that TV show and that man?

42% of the benefits budget is state pension.

If any of you still think there will very a state pension on 2040 you are a fool.

No young immigrants now to do the jobs no one else wabta to do and pay tax and NI.

Aging population, decreasing birth rate.

Fun times.

I tend to agree, OP. What I consider true poverty as described by some on here, is something I'm fortunate not to have experienced (knock wood) and would struggle to really get.

I recall once a good friend described herself and DH as "on the breadline". Both high-earning homeowners in secure jobs, who'd waxed a ton on home improvements that year. I'm sure things were relatively very tight and maybe there's a lot more to it than I could tell - but the building work finished and life went on as normal. She's a left-wing "bleeding heart" type, I remember thinking it was a staggering comment from her.

The 'punishment' for the crime of a poor choices can echo down two or three generations in some instances - which seems very excessive compared to the punishment of actual crimes.

Yes but to the idiots on here, not having an annual holiday means that they may as well check themselves in to a psychiatric hospital. They cannot possibly cope any longer because they haven't sat on a beach in the sun.

I wish I was being dramatic with that, but I've actually seen someone on here say they can't cope unless they've been on holiday to the beach. It's beyond pathetic.

The song Common People by Pulp explained it all very well. Those people who have the safety net of parents who can bail them out from will never understand what it mean to be poor, have to cut down on food or be at risk of becoming homeless. I'd even suggest that some people on very high salaries complaining about currently struggling seem to think that poor is cool.

This but not 6 months. It should be for a indeterminate period of time they don't know the end of - so they have the actual uncertainty that comes with poverty. Otherwise it's like being on an inverse holiday and they can count down the days.

Once they completely crack, give them another month/6 weeks and then let them start work.

YANBU but I guess if someone is earning that amount they might have higher fixed outgoings like mortgage etc and all of a sudden everything else goes up and they could find themselves squeezed.

Choices is definitely the key.

people have different priorities - I used to go long haul rather than have a car. Others save for retirement. Having no money takes away those choices.

I tell you the people who wind me up. It's those that like to compare the UK to Ethiopia or Sudan to show how well we're doing with nothing to complain about. They never compare us to The Netherlands or France say, you know, our actual neighbours.

I don't pretend to fully understand poverty because I'm fortunate enough not to have experienced it. But I hope I have some idea and some empathy.
I think a lot of people (I notice it on high earnings threads) don't like to acknowledge any privilege abd the choices that brings, because the insinuation is that they haven't worked hard. I notice celebrities often have a (tenuous) "overcoming adversity" story as well. But it is possible that a lot of people have had advantages or a head start in some way and worked hard. They're not mutually exclusive. But they key thing is that having money gives you more choices.

There are lots of instances where people advise things to do with budgeting overlook that even for "cheaper" options you do need a certain amount if money to start with -

You see "batch cooking"

• this assumes enough money to buy a large quantity of ingredients, store cupboard type ingredients, adequate cooking facilities, a freezer and containers to store the portions of food. (All prohibitively expensive for many people)

Another recent thread I saw someone bemoaning fast fashion and people buying lots of £10 pairs of jeans when they should buy 2 x £50 pairs of jeans. (Again assuming someone will have £50 in one go, at the point they need a new pair of jeans)

retrain or go on a course to maximise your earning power/take in ironing etc

• retraining or a course would cost money upfront or even if free you might need childcare, taking in ironing isn't going to instantly bring in money - you would need a decent iron and the means to pay your electricity bill for a start.

Advocating shopping in Lidl or Aldi - assuming everyone can access a lidl or aldi. If you have no car and limited income you are likely to be reliant on the nearest shop which may well be co-op or a corner shop with limited choices, and much higher prices.

...and multiple other examples I haven't thought of

Like your thinking. Adds another level.

You have a point ,my son gets the highest rates of DLA ,and we get enhanced ,tax credits ,I also get carers allowances and my Dh works full time in a low wage job ,financially we are no worse off then when I was working full time, but we live in the northwest in social housing so it's specific to our circumstances.

I literally have no idea what you mean ibr reference to my comment re posting on feminist threads....

Oh and the other thing that pisses me off is when posters complain others aren't poor enough. Example the care worker who buys herself s takeaway coffee. Loads of posters than insisting that's her problem right there. If she didn't speak £3 twice a week on a cappuccino she wouldn't be poor. It's a fucking cup of coffee! What do you want? For the people who do these jobs to have absolutely nothing except bread and water.
Poverty in the UK is absolutely shameful and we shouldn't but up with it. Instead it seems we're grateful for food banks when we should be demanding the end of such levels of poverty.

You don't think someone facing homelessness or eviction in the UK is real poverty because they don't fetch their water from wells?

Of course they do. And genuinely good for them for earning as much as they do. This thread wasn't a dig at people who are comfortable. God, I wish we were all comfortable!

I find it offensive some of the posts on mumsnet regarding money struggles. There was a thread recently from a poster saying the cost of living crises could be a positive thing! Mumsnet seems to attract top earners and they have little insight into poverty, I cannot feel empathy towards someone who is struggling when they choose to send their children to private school.