to think that some people just don't get poverty?

[Ohsoworried]

I've seen a few posts recently where people earning a fair bit of money (think around 100k a year) are complaining that they're struggling with money, don't have enough etc. I DO understand that it is all relative but equally, for people like me on a low low wage, in insecure housing, wondering how I'm going to pay rent, having to stop paying in to my pension for the extra £30 a month etc it does make me cringe a little. Things are a little better for me at the moment but it has been hard and my secondment is up soon so back down to low pay. When I left my abusive ex I was living in poverty. And when I mean poverty I mean in a refuge, no job because I had to relocate, no money for a deposit to rent etc. It's the choice between being able to downsize your house, not go on holiday for a couple of years, make sacrifices but still live comfortably etc, compared with not knowing if you'll be able to afford your bills. Of course I'm generalising and I'm sure there are people out there who are genuinely on high wages but have high mortgage payments etc who are struggling. I do sympathise. But I don't always think this is the case...

No put them on and leave your digital device alone

Some people can't see past themselves and their circumstances. The one upmanship of conversation is what I put it down to. Humans will be humans.

So, mumsnet is only for positive discussion? Should I leave the feminist threads too because they also upset me due to what's happening to women? You know, getting it off your chest and talking about it is oft better than bottling it up. It's nice to find solidarity sometimes.

Yeah money doesnt buy happiness or good health or good relationships but I would far rather be miserable with money than without it.

Used to be reasonably off and life was a lot less worrying than it is now I am on a very low income. Every bill is a worry, every day is constant checking of the bank app to make sure I can go food shopping or put petrol in the car to get to work, making sure that everything that can be turned off is turned off, cooking three meals at a time in the oven to make the most of the gas, making every wash do as many items as possible, tripping over airers in the sitting room rather than using the dryer (which broke and even if I could afford to repair it, I cant afford to run it so.....)

Agree with you op.

i think that all MPs should have to live on benefits level income /min wage for 6 months so they get an understanding of what others lives are like.

Some people just don't get it at all. They also don't understand how expensive it is to be poor. Terry Pratchetts Boots theory is a perfect description of the poverty trap.

"The reason that the rich were so rich, Vimes reasoned, was because they managed to spend less money. Take boots, for example. He earned thirty-eight dollars a month plus allowances. A really good pair of leather boots cost fifty dollars. But an affordable pair of boots, which were sort of OK for a season or two and then leaked like hell when the cardboard gave out, cost about ten dollars. Those were the kind of boots Vimes always bought, and wore until the soles were so thin that he could tell where he was in Ankh-Morpork on a foggy night by the feel of the cobbles. But the thing was that good boots lasted for years and years. A man who could afford fifty dollars had a pair of boots that'd still be keeping his feet dry in ten years' time, while a poor man who could only afford cheap boots would have spent a hundred dollars on boots in the same time and would still have wet feet. This was the Captain Samuel Vimes "Boots" theory of socioeconomic unfairness."
While life threw us a massive curve ball 20 years ago, and we had to basically dump all the plans we'd made (I'd intended to go back to work full time when our second child was in nursery and I was never able to) I've always felt lucky that we've had a permanent roof over our head, we've never missed a mortgage payment and although we had debt, it was manageable. That's enough to say we've not been poor. What really makes me sad is that we seem to be back now to almost Victorian levels of poverty in more households than ever before and that is a difficult thing for someone who's never had to worry to understand, especially when we consider a lot of these households are working households. They're not languishing on the dole, they're working and they're still in poverty.

Just because you have a tougher financial situation it doesn't make other people's concerns less valid. MN is an inclusive forum for all sorts of people. It is not exclusive for people who struggle with buying food. People in a better financial situation are allowed to have worries and seek advice from others

Rent a flat above a shop, cut your hair and get a job, smoke some fags and play some pool, pretend you never went to school.......

Of course, though I thought I made it clear from previous posts that I agree with you.

That was a tough read. Your poor husband. His poor dad.

Is DH's dad still alive?

This!! It's all relative they say... but there's a huge difference between cancelling your childs ballet lessons or not having a foreign holiday to using food banks, sitting in the dark & having the money for the £1 donation for non uniform day for children in need....
I found an out of circulation £1 coin I had to give to my son & told him to put it in the pot quickly & discreetly because I literally had nothing else!

The only person who constantly tells me money doesn't matter has plenty of it due to her dh

Burn the positive pants and reduce your energy bill. I'm sure that'll save a few quid... People of all incomes are entitled to moan and seek advice, but I do roll my eyes at those who don't seem able to acknowledge where their moans are relatively trivial compared to others. Some people won't ever experience poverty, but you don't need to acknowledge it to be aware of it, or to choose who you moan to and how you express your woes.

Also, always nice to see the Vimes Boots theory getting in on a thread 😃

don't need to experience it to be aware of it

I think my brain is on an expensive foreign holiday...

At least you only have to read it. I get to hear it. My brother (who I do love) is a twat about money.
He's incredibly well off with a very well paid job and will complain about only having 2 holidays even though he knows we haven't had a holiday for 5 years and he doesn't know that we survive by living in our overdraft but he knows I earn a lot less than him but he still complains.

The Vimes Boots Theory is probably the best piece of writing that describes the reality of the cost of poverty that there has ever been.

I agree with you OP, and it's not the sharing of experience that's so upsetting sometimes, it's the waving away of someone in real poverty with comparisons of not having a luxury to not having an essential. Sometimes there's a comparison of an essential to something that is a luxury to someone in poverty (a warm house for instance) which is considered by others to be a non negotiable essential that they have to do without a real luxury (a holiday for example) to afford.
That and the idea that everyone can have it if they just work hard enough.
And as a pp pointed out, people in poverty have just as many things go wrong with their health (maybe more likelihood because of poverty) they experience bereavement, they have accidents, they lose jobs, they have devastating things happen to them.

Can't remember who said it but something along the lines of it's more comfortable to do your crying in a Ferrari than on a bicycle?

My husband doesn’t understand poverty. He grew up wealthy, now earns over £100k and was given the deposit for his first house. I grew up in poverty, rough estate, hungry, bailiffs, walking miles to school because we couldn’t afford bus fare. Now we’re a very middle class family and I harbour a lot of guilt for my lifestyle, knowing how much people will be struggling! We’re fortunate the crisis isn’t impacting us too much; we’ve cut the gardener and I’m being more conscious with the food shop but still taking a couple of holidays this year. Husband thinks we’re destitute; he’s an amazing, kind lovely man but it does make me cringe when he complains about the cost of living crisis when we earn over £150k a year.

Strongly agree. I'm not troll hunting but there's a lot of fantasists and wishful thinkers around the threads with improbable lives and incomes. They're best ignored.

I have been poor, and at the lowest financial point (terminal illness involved) I couldn't afford to pay for something prestigious, and said as much, and why, and was offered instalments. I don't think people understand what financial hardship is.

Anyone else feel sorry for the gardener?

Have you spelled it out to him? Told him that poverty is literally no food on the table, sitting in the cold and dark because there is no money for gas or electric, hiding behind the sofa because baillifs have turned up to take said sofa away.....

Have you sat him down and made all of that clear? Because to be perfectly honest a man in a family with an income of £150k moaning about being poor would have me chucking plates.

And it's the utter relentlessness of it all. The never-ending fucking poverty premium for generations of families.

It's a cycle that's stoppable and all the measures that were in place, like rent caps and help with rent deposits, and tex credits, have disappeared in a cloud of smoke.

But most people understand when they say "we are struggling with money" does not equal "we are living in poverty". They aren't taking away from YOUR experience by expressing their own. To take it that way is a you problem not a them problem.

Most people understand there are heaps of people worse off but their own situation can be bad or made worse for them at that time.

Its a bit like someone saying I've had a sandwich but I'm still starving and someone coming back with "well there are people starving in (insert location here) with no food at all!!!" yes we are all aware but that doesn't change the situation at that moment and they aren't saying their situation is worse than a malnourished person from a less fortunate place or that they even understand what that would be like....

I have always thought me and OH did okay. We struggled early on but are now comfortable.. however after reading some of these threads with people feeling the pinch on well over 50k, I wonder how they are feeling the pinch, that is a massive amount of money! I understand people have higher bills and debts but we also have these, we have started not putting heating on ect, trying to cut costs with food and using the car less. We are on much less than some of the posters on these threads and can still manage our bills.