to think that some people just don't get poverty?

[Ohsoworried]

I've seen a few posts recently where people earning a fair bit of money (think around 100k a year) are complaining that they're struggling with money, don't have enough etc. I DO understand that it is all relative but equally, for people like me on a low low wage, in insecure housing, wondering how I'm going to pay rent, having to stop paying in to my pension for the extra £30 a month etc it does make me cringe a little. Things are a little better for me at the moment but it has been hard and my secondment is up soon so back down to low pay. When I left my abusive ex I was living in poverty. And when I mean poverty I mean in a refuge, no job because I had to relocate, no money for a deposit to rent etc. It's the choice between being able to downsize your house, not go on holiday for a couple of years, make sacrifices but still live comfortably etc, compared with not knowing if you'll be able to afford your bills. Of course I'm generalising and I'm sure there are people out there who are genuinely on high wages but have high mortgage payments etc who are struggling. I do sympathise. But I don't always think this is the case...

Momicrone
No put them on and leave your digital device alone
So, mumsnet is only for positive discussion? Should I leave the feminist threads too because they also upset me due to what's happening to women? You know, getting it off your chest and talking about it is oft better than bottling it up. It's nice to find solidarity sometimes.

No @Ohsoworried. It's an interesting thread and a discussion worth having.

@SpindleInTheWind totally agree

I got into a proper row with my father once about the whole Brighthouse/doorstep loans thing. He said that poor people just make it worse for themselves by getting in with these companies. I pointed out that if their washing machine broke then they would simply buy a new one for, lets say, £500. But a person on a very low income would have that money available so they would have to borrow money. If they have bad credit, as often happens on a low income, they can only borrow from the sub prime lenders who charge £££££ in interest. So they go to Brighthouse. Brighthouse would sell the £500 washing machine for £750 cash. So already a massive mark up. Then they offer the credit at stupid APR levels but, crucially, its weekly payments are £5 a week so affordable to someone on a low income. Eventually its paid off and a £500 washing machine that my father would just buy has cost someone on a fraction of his income, well over £1200 pounds. But their kids have clean clothes.

He did concede the point eventually but there was a definite feeling of "Well they dont help themselves". I was so happy when my mother pointed out that if it hadnt been for the help from her father (working class but when working class meant earning enough to support a family) then they wouldnt have got through some years...... that shut him up!

I should add that my father is a classic boomer and said "Well we managed" and thats when my mother said "Not without my dad we didnt!" :o

Some people can't see past themselves and their circumstances.

Absolutely the same goes for people in this thread and their "but you don't know what it's like to be meeeeee!!! Me me me!!!"

Everyone only worries about their own situation compared to someone else's and then based on a few posts here decides their situation is worse than someone else's so what are they complaining about without even knowing the full story. Grass isn't always greener.

Life isn't a competition no matter what your circumstances are and this post is no better than that like everyone is trying to outdo each other at how bad they have it is just another version of a post about how much people have.... But carry on it will definitely make your situation more important that's for sure.

What about those of us who grew up poor and was poor until maybe 10 years ago? I don't think you can say we will never understand.

@saggyhairyass

@saggyhairyass sorry sent prematurely. I was thinking that your DH is quite like my own was until a good few years ago. We earn well but use to live quite frugally. I think having our kids sort of shifted his mind against how'd been fretting about money, which I feel is better for him.

Tone deaf post

I so agree with you OP. In fact, I would go a lot for the and say that most people “don’t get” poverty.

Being short of cash for a bit or having to downsize is not poverty, poverty is a daily grind with no end in sight. It is relentless and soul destroying and dehumanising. Poverty makes a person incredibly vulnerable with every step of the day a dance of survival.

I believe poverty is our greatest shame, what sort of people are we to turn our backs on the most vulnerable?

Of course some people don’t “get it”. They’ve never had to. Just as others have never had to ”get it” what is like to be childless-not-by-choice, widowed in their 20s, paralyzed, deaf, facing terminal illness. And many more. Yet there seems to be an extra level of vitriol reserved for those who’ve never experienced poverty (usually through no “fault” of their own) than there is for those who have never experienced many of life’s other hardships.

It’s not my fault you have less money than me. Just as it’s not your fault I can’t have children. Money isn’t everything. Please don’t be so shallow to assume those of us on high salaries are happier or have a better life than you. It’s not necessarily the case. There are some things no amount of money can buy.

Welcome to mumsnet. Home of the Misery Olympics.

I wouldn't worry too much if they are good at their job. My in laws are gardeners and they are booked out for the next 18months for both landscaping and maintenance and are turning down multiple jobs a day.

Poverty is misery. You seem delightful.

It absolutely makes other people’s concerns less valid. The fact that you so blithely dismiss the most vulnerable speaks volumes.

No it is not a “genuine concern” to have to skip a holiday, it is a discussion that an intelligent person would keep to an appropriate audience not plaster across the internet when there is a pandemic, a war and a climate crisis literally destroying lives in front of us.

I think you can be 'struggling with money' but still know that you are not in poverty. A few years ago my OHs work dried up. I was on mat leave. For a few months we bought in less than 1/2 of the mortgage between us. We were wracking up debt. We were getting close to having to sell the house we were half-way through renovating (OH doing the work) which would therefore have been at a massive loss. We would have been able to buy a much smaller place and we had credit cards which would keep us going for a long time whilst the place sold. So we knew we'd eat every day and could pay basic bills. This was struggling but not poverty IMHO. Same when I was a student. Overdraft maxed on. No more loans possible. Cash machine giving me nothing at all. But I had some room on a credit card and was near the end of my course. Not poverty but I think fair enough to say struggling with money.

Whilst you've clearly had a traumatic life, and I hope the Universe has started being kinder to you, none of that in any way applies to what OP is talking about, which is threads where people are quarrying whether £300is enough to live on a month once every single bill has been paid Inc the kids seven after school classes and the holiday savings.

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No one is saying being rich is a cure all, you've clearly got very different worries and concerns. One isn't more than the other they're just different.

I think its made worse by people that blame those in poverty for being in poverty. They see poor people as lazy or people of bad judgement with poor decision making.

Then you get the middle class that grumble about not having luxuries because they feel entitled to them because they work hard, or they 'did everything right'.

You're right OP. My ex partner on 200k a year used to live 5k in overdraft and complain about the money. Just his own food bill was £1300 a month! That's not including the restaurants!

My phone broke and I was without one for about a week and I burst out crying about it in front of him. To which he suggested he'll help me get one on finance. Then went and bought a 4k American fridge-freezer in cash to replace a fully working smaller one.
That chain of events was too much for me to bear and I dumped his insensitive arse! Went to CEX the next day and got myself a little pink Sony Walkman flip-phone for £25. Bloody loved it - the phone was a talking point! 😃

I never judged in the first place but having your experience nobody should ever judge. Particularly DWP. 😟

There isn’t much variety on MN. It’s either people claiming to earn 200K a year (because they’ve worked so hard😆) or those who are claiming on living on 5K a year.

YANBU in that many people don’t understand. I know plenty of people who think that $100k here in the US is a perfectly average thing…but it clearly isn’t as only about 5% of people make six figures!

We struggle, but in many ways I’m better off than richer people I know. However I think it’s important that people do try their best to understand what poverty is like, because they seem to feel like “well, save up” is worthwhile advice to someone who never has anything TO save.

EddyF well let me be the first to say that my husband I get along on about £38k after taxes 😆 (at least I think so, if my dollars to pounds conversion is right)

YANBU, it drives me potty when my friends complain about the cost of living crisis because they've had to pay £1.5 - £2k for their holiday to a cottage in Cornwall this year. Meanwhile, I am wearing clothes with holes in and all my kids clothes come from charity shops. They live in another world.

Yeah, it's true OP. Though I do think that even if you are in a fairly high paying job, if you are suddenly facing the possibility of not being able to pay your basic bills or losing your home, the stress is really high. Maybe it can almost be as high as if you were in a much worse place, it doesn't seem to scale in a logical way.

I totally agree with you, op.

We are fortunate enough to live in a nice house in a good area. This means we spend less money, we live in a good place with good amenities. Don't have to have bug days out because we live near great parks, swimming pool, shopping centre etc etc. We have the appropriate pots and pans and have a car to go and get groceries to make our food in an oven that we can pay the electricity for.

Ten flights up in a flat, broken lift, no car, catching the bus to try and buy food that you can't cook cos you've no money for the leccy meter is a different kettle of fish.

I agree with you OP, you see it all the time on here, some people genuinely have no idea what poverty looks like.

I've worked in children's services and what struck me was how many people have nobody at all in their lives they can rely on - not a soul. If they're skint they can't nip to their family/friends to borrow because they don't have anyone to ask, or they're just as skint as they are. For some people the only people in their lives are those that are paid to be there (social services, HV's, etc) If they've run out of emergency on their electric they just have to wait till payday, or pawn something (if they have anything worth pawning!) - they have no access to credit cards, no overdraft, it's grim.

I've lived on benefits in the past so I know what skint feels like; however, I always had people around me I could rely on - that's the difference I think. So although I've felt poverty, I knew if my electric was about to go off I could borrow off my mum/dad/friends - some people have nobody at all, can you imagine that?

It's not the same as having a tight month - I still have them; it's about having no options, no hope, no support and being at the mercy of the charity of services. It's shit being poor.