to think that some people just don't get poverty?

[Ohsoworried]

I've seen a few posts recently where people earning a fair bit of money (think around 100k a year) are complaining that they're struggling with money, don't have enough etc. I DO understand that it is all relative but equally, for people like me on a low low wage, in insecure housing, wondering how I'm going to pay rent, having to stop paying in to my pension for the extra £30 a month etc it does make me cringe a little. Things are a little better for me at the moment but it has been hard and my secondment is up soon so back down to low pay. When I left my abusive ex I was living in poverty. And when I mean poverty I mean in a refuge, no job because I had to relocate, no money for a deposit to rent etc. It's the choice between being able to downsize your house, not go on holiday for a couple of years, make sacrifices but still live comfortably etc, compared with not knowing if you'll be able to afford your bills. Of course I'm generalising and I'm sure there are people out there who are genuinely on high wages but have high mortgage payments etc who are struggling. I do sympathise. But I don't always think this is the case...

I think covid really highlighted the disparities here - MN was full of 'stay the fuck at home' posters, like it wasn't a hardship at all ('it's not like you're in the trenches, you literally just have to sit on your sofa' ) without really considering that for some staying at home meant no access to outdoor space AT ALL, cramped living conditions, nowhere for your kids to do online learning, parents struggling with MH/addictions/poverty/DV, no internet access, no support from services - even local parks were shut (fucking ridiculous!)

For some staying at home was far worse than the threat of covid. Staying in your nice little house in the suburbs with your lovely lawn and patio area is a whole lot different to staying at home in your 2 bed flat with 3/4 kids to occupy with nothing.

YANBU OP, but there’s general judgement/lack of empathy on everything. Life with disabilities, twatty husbands…
It’s balance, isn’t it?
We as they public have to have an opinion on everything because ‘public opinion’ supposedly forms policies in a democracy.
But the lack of self awareness (?) here astounds me.
‘We’re not rich’ (but we can afford a horse?) , holidays are essential etc etc.

Oh God the horses!

"We are not rich but I do prioritise my horses" note the plural......

Said horses costing more to keep than my mortgage payments per month. Its a different world!

These threads really get at me as I see both sides (having lived both) and I think there is a huge lack of empathy in both directions.

We shouldn't be engaging in the misery olympics. It it stupid.

Obviously it's far worse having no heating and no food than it is to be worrying about your mortgage payments. I lived like that for years, electric often cutting off. No food many days. But, it's also equally stressful being a lone parent with a "decent" income that's all sucked up by childcare/ rent and mortgage for example. It can leave you in a very similar situation now wrt. heating and food.

I think every situation is different and it's unhelpful to try to divide people as there are so many different factors involved in anyone's situation. It's counterproductive. We should focus on persuading as many people as possible on supporting things that can be done to make things better for more people, rather than "othering" people.

I agree OP,

I was a solo mum for most of my DD's life and being the sole provider for my dc financially its tough, and she has a disability. Budgeting to every pound month after month year after year is draining. Sticking to the same food bill and having to walk round with a calculator, saving five pounds every week for DD's birthday / christmas and a weekend away in the summer. I wouldnt say I lived in poverty because we had a roof over our head and food on the table but having barely anything over at the end of the month for any treats is sole destroying. If it was a good month I might have enough to take DD to the cinema or skating, but if an unforseen bill comes up you live off frozen food and dont put the heating on. Its a sad state of affairs when you look forward to the work's christmas do because its free drinks and a nice meal out.

I have have had a couple of friends from school who would always boast about her latest holiday, technological device, invite me out for drinks etc, knowing full well I could not afford it, and their kids would also show off in front of my DD.

DD went to a relatively deprived school and there were parents worse off than me. I am luckier than some in that my parents were relatively wealthy and they bailed me out a few times over the years, but that was only when I was truly desperate. They were also generous to DD too in terms of money at birthdays and Christmas.

I get what you're saying but there is a massive difference between facing having to downsize a mortgage and having literally nothing left to sell. You can't pawn the tv as that went months ago, you cant sell your jewellery as you dont have any, you cant price check broadband as you dont have that either and you are stuck on prepayment meters for gas and electric which cost so much more.

You get the kids school shoes from Asda because they cost less but need replacing more often..... it goes on.
Being truly poor is very expensive.

I'm living below the poverty line and an unable to work due to I'll health. My GP knows this yet suggested I employ a cleaner.

I agree some dont get it and will never get it. On some of the threads about energy prices rising, a lot of the suggestions were things like replace appliances for more efficient ones-even after an OP saying "I dont have money to replace them". Or worse, making our using your waahing machine or oven is some kind of luxury you can stop doing to help yourself .

The absolute worst thing for me is having to say no to the children. The guilt of that is all consuming. Its not even frivolous things, its small things I should be able to give them. I was able to give them.

When COVID happened, I was successful in my field earning 45k a year. We werent loaded but I could pay all my bills, afford a few treats and an unexpected medium sized expense was easy enough to sort. I was managing an independent care home. The stress and trauma of what I had to deal with caused me to have a breakdown and I have lost my career. I am genuinely broken by what I had to see and deal with. I was a really good nurse and a successful turnaround manager. I tried working for myself for a year, was making half decent money-then that dried up with the cost of living crisis, no one had money for the things I was selling. For the first time in my life, I was forced to claim benefits. Despite having a first class degree, no one would even offer me an interview-I applied for office work, cleaning, shop assistant-hundreds of jobs. I have finally been offered a NMW job back in the sector I desperately needed to leave to protect my own mental health-I feel like I have to because I wont be offered anything else. For every £1 I earn, I will have 45p of my universal credit reduced, so although I will be a little better off, I will be no where near where I was in 2020.

I feel sad. Life is joyless sometimes with no treats to look forward to.

I think it's true, but also think that it goes both ways. It's always harder to "get" any situation if you've never lived it personally. It's quite common for the less well off to scoff and minimise the problems of those wealthier than them because they mistakenly believe that having money is some kind of silver bullet that prevents any other stresses and difficulties. Like rich people aren't allowed to have problems that they don't understand, having never been in that situation themselves.

Made me chuckle when a certain customer who used to frequent my tattoo studio for, you know, £60 p/h tattoos used to claim he was skint and "struggling to shoe (his) horses this month".

I don’t think it can go both ways at all, rich people never have the poverty issue whereas poor people have poverty and all the other shit to deal with.

Our leaders don't understand poverty, they are all old friends from elite schools & are more concerned with protecting their wealth than improving the country.

Rich people are allowed to have problems. The difference is poor people often have similar problems on top of having to find money for food and hot water.

I agree OP although there is a lot of people struggling in their own way that weren’t before.
We have a lovely house purchased with some inheritance and a large mortgage we could easily afford pre kids.
I now work part and have 2 kids in childcare. Things were tight but manageable before covid but are now tight and uncomfortable. We have cancelled also extra curricular including swimming for our eldest and things are tight. Savings are gone (thanks lockdown…) and we live month to month. No fancy car, no private school etc but from the outside we look like a well to do middle class family. Others wouldn’t expect us to be unable to afford any extras and our income is above any help (which I agree with to be fair).
yes it would be worse in temporary accommodation, it would be so much worse if this wasn’t temporary due to extortionate childcare but in the here and now it’s still difficult.
I would never complain to someone I knew in true poverty and I always keep perspective but I do allow myself a moan to friends in a similar/better position!

I don't know what you are expecting here. No, some people just don't get poverty because they've never experienced it. But they can be empathetic.

And yet with reference to feminist threads you say: "getting it off your chest and talking about it is oft better than bottling it up".

And I completely disagree with pp :
50shadesofcatholic.

"No it is not a “genuine concern” to have to skip a holiday, it is a discussion that an intelligent person would keep to an appropriate audience not plaster across the internet when there is a pandemic, a war and a climate crisis literally destroying lives in front of us."

Mn you can post any question in any time, it's allowed. Say, you had a huge inheritance recently, or a huge pay rise, you'd still be allowed to ask questions about it.

I find it really offensive when people say "oh, rich people have problems too"

Rich people don't lose all their teeth at 38 because they've never been able to afford private dentistry and no access to nhs dentists.

Rich people don't get sicker because they cant afford otc medicines (and, no the nhs won't prescribe common otc medicines)

Rich people don't wear thin, poorly made clothes in the depths of winter. They have coats and boots and hats and gloves.

Rich people can heat their homes and feed their kids nutrious food.

They can buy their kids uniforms, decent shoes, schoolbag, toiletries, San Pro, provide extra curricular activities and enrichment.

They can save for their kids futures.

I cannot and will not feel sympathy for someone who is sad because they will only have 2 holidays abroad this year.

And suggesting that I should is exactly what's wrong with this country. People should be on the streets about what tory governments since 2010 have done to this country and its most vulnerable.

But...no.

The sheer effort needed to constantly cheek prices, check bank balances, find things to sell on ebay etc is exhausting.

Having to take a calculator to the shops so you don't overspend.

Only ever buying the smartprice version of everything. No treats. No splurging on a takeaway.

Only being able to afford the cheapest shoes so thwy wear out and have to be purchased again within 6 months...

Check out the #vimesbootsindex

People on mn I think live in an alternate reality, or are just lying, so I wouldn't trust what they say as the actual truth. But some do just seem completely oblivious too and cannot see past their own existence, they think everyone lives like them. It's really just a way for them to show that they are actually stupid and are likely only rich thanks to generous parents or have somehow managed to talk their way into an easy, overpaid job. No one that stupid could actually be doing anything worthwhile.

I would pity them op. They live secluded, deluded lives. They actually know nothing about the world. They will live and die in ignorance.

What about people who grew up really poor and now are on those magic six digits salaries, do you think they "get" poverty?

For anyone who needs help:

www.acts435.org.uk
www.capuk.org
www.trusselltrust.org

Being poor as the adult responsible for paying the bills is different to growing up in poverty.

I've done both. Does that mean I doubly get it?

I agree op. I've been really really poor as an adult (and as a child) and some people do not and never will, get it.

That would be me.

Yes. I think I "get" poverty.

More importantly, how many of this group help those less fortunate than themselves??

The psychology of poverty is an interesting one.

As I tell my son...money won't mag8cally make you happier but it will give you choices.

THATS what poverty truly is.

No choices. No hope.

Ah, yes.

Cheap credit too!

Some of the people who experience poverty, not all, have made very bad choices. They need to take personal responsibility for that.

Just as an example, Yesterday there was a thread from a woman complaining that banks give credit cards to people too easily and saying by aged 21 she spent 6K credit card, on fancy clothes and going out drinking. That's her choice. Why should a 21 year old who didn't do that feel ashamed of the fact they themselves didn't make those choices?