to think that some people just don't get poverty?

[Ohsoworried]

I've seen a few posts recently where people earning a fair bit of money (think around 100k a year) are complaining that they're struggling with money, don't have enough etc. I DO understand that it is all relative but equally, for people like me on a low low wage, in insecure housing, wondering how I'm going to pay rent, having to stop paying in to my pension for the extra £30 a month etc it does make me cringe a little. Things are a little better for me at the moment but it has been hard and my secondment is up soon so back down to low pay. When I left my abusive ex I was living in poverty. And when I mean poverty I mean in a refuge, no job because I had to relocate, no money for a deposit to rent etc. It's the choice between being able to downsize your house, not go on holiday for a couple of years, make sacrifices but still live comfortably etc, compared with not knowing if you'll be able to afford your bills. Of course I'm generalising and I'm sure there are people out there who are genuinely on high wages but have high mortgage payments etc who are struggling. I do sympathise. But I don't always think this is the case...

My DH has no idea what poverty is. I grew up on a council estate in the 80s with a dad that worked on a local farm so he could get free eggs and veg and poached game and fish in the dead of night to feed us. Sometimes we were very hungry. I remember my mum making our clothes out of rolls of cheap fabric and never going on a holiday until I was an adult. My husband thought his family were in dire straits at one point as a kid because they had to buy Tesco branded bread and jam for breakfast for a couple of months and not Hovis and Hartleys. He remembers the horror of his mum suggesting he have puma trainers to save a bit of money instead of Nike. I didn't even have trainers at all! We grew up so differently. He was a middle class lad, parents have always owned property, always had pedigree dogs, kids had horse riding lessons, always went on holidays abroad, had their own boat ffs. He absolutely panics if we're down to our last £200 after all the bills are paid and food is bought.

He has no idea at all about real financial struggle

Not really. At least not in the UK.

Many of the names that appear on the rolls of Eton and Harrow each year are the same names that came over with William the Conqueror in 1066.

These same families own VAST tracts of land and have made their huge wealth by taxing and tithing their tenants (who will have been living in poverty)

People don't like to admit it but the UK is still a feudal society tipping it's cap to a "royal" family who have no use at all in the 21st century.

In fact if anything they are just an embarrassment. Sexual deviants and chinless wonders.

The ruling elites in the UK got to be elite by stealing from, killing and taxing the poor.

Tbh the tories are pretty much doing the same now...stealing money from taxpayers to bail out banks, pay for dodgy ppe contracts for their mates, over 170,000 people have died thanks to their mismanagement of covid and we are now taxed more than ever in living memory.

It's how the elite stay the elite.

Their REAL genuis is in convincing people to vote for them against their own interests.

🤷‍♀️

Stealing from the poor.
What are they stealing?
Money, do the poor have money?
You do know money is a concept.

Even The Bible mentions the poor, the Matthew effect is a well-known phenomenon. Or was Boris in charge back in the times when Mathew was written?
😂

Why are you likening me to Mogg? What have I said that is so controversial or difficult to understand? Is it for lack of something more intelligent to say?
People do have a different perception of poverty - that is a fact. My dad is still alive so his perception of poverty, the OP’s perception of poverty and someone on £100K a year’s perception of poverty will all be very different.

I agree. I was so hopeful at start of first lock down when there were all these articles and discussion about how to make society more robust to economic issues it caused, etc. Looking at wages, discussing basic income, etc.

Then nope. Government says covid is over now and everything is hunky dory and should go back to how it was before.

who are you talking to?

Poverty is political. Just because you claim that someone you know will “laugh in your face”, which by the way is very rude, doesn’t change the fact that poverty is designed and maintained by the rich in order to stay rich. That you do not know this does not negate that, it just speaks to your ignorance.

Dp has a professional qualification and earns an average salary, as a team leader, yet, still drives 60 miles to clean on a Saturday. She doesn't have to.
Even now whilst planning the baby, she's thinking of adding some kind of income whilst she's off on maternity with full pay for 6 months.
Her brother clears over £2300 washing up in a restaurant, he works up to 70 per week. His wife supplements this income with part-time work in a factory.

This is the mindset of people who come from other countries with no social provision. Sit and politicize poverty with those people and they'll laugh in your face.

Poverty is 100% political though. Your partner's brother can only clear £2300 a month washing up because of a political decision to create a minimum wage. Remove politics from the equation and he'd be working 70 hours a week (or more) for food and a place to lay his head.

Also having to work 70 hours a week AND having your partner work to supplement your income just to afford a decent standard of living is really not aspirational. We should never be championing a situation where it's seen as a good thing to spend 45% of your entire week at work (not even including commuting times) and more fool anyone who thinks this is a good thing.

Poverty is political. Just because you claim that someone you know will “laugh in your face”, which by the way is very rude, doesn’t change the fact that poverty is designed and maintained by the rich in order to stay rich. That you do not know this does not negate that, it just speaks to your ignorance.

This. And of course it's political.

Of course we should all work part time.🙄

Poverty is NOT relative!
Struggling/not being able to afford food and roof over your head day in, day out is poverty! That's the same all over the world and exactly the same historically.

I grew up poor. So many people around that time were poor. Some struggled more, some less but factually all those families were poor. Nothing relative about running out of food money.

Poverty is NOT relative!

Well if its not relative then people are going thorough wars or live in third world countries and are starving with zero roof, food, or support via govt means etc... So they're probably worse off than someone struggling in a first world country and therefore they can't complain given others have it worse...

That's what meant by relative to one's situation but if you want to remove that equation then no one in the US, UK and many other first world countries can say they're poor in comparison...

Unable to pay rent in London, I took a live-in job at a pub

A live in job in a pub where there was a floor a roof running water etc? How very privileged. Since its not relative remember those third world countries with none of that. You were doing fine in comparison right?

No, I didn't have it good because I was being abused at that workplace mentally and financially, couldn't eat when I was hungry or take a shower or wash clothes. The same applies to everyone else in a similar position in the world - that's a horrible situation to be in and it's lack of money that put me in that situation. Nothing relative.

@pixie5121 I clearly didn't have a mate. And by then I was very, very hungry - which closes some options but makes others acceptable.

Of course there are other options to be fed for the day (walk into the Church, beg, try to find soup kitchens) I took what seemed like the quickest out and no doubt in my situation it was!

The point is that ending up poor or homeless or on mate's floor has nothing to do with lack of "hard work" or lack of education and we don't all have the same options at the crossroads.
In my case an unfortunate snowball of events (and complete lack of other support) led to incredible struggles.

Someone from a financially stable background wouldn't even have considered that pub as an option, for starters! They'd be back at mum's food and board trying to land the next professional role.

Yes childcare is expensive. That's why you only have children you can afford and go back to work as soon as possible working as many hours as reasonably possible, not comfortably.

^

Childcare should NOT be expensive. It needs to be subsidised. Because who's paying the price? Women, especially poor women.

Of course the overall standard of living in U.K. is better than a lot of other countries.

but Dont get side tracked by it. In the U.K. there’ll be poverty and hardship. And it feels like the govt doesnt care.

working hard and getting an education is difficult if certain things like stability and support are not in place.

And education isn’t always free.

“Yes childcare is expensive. That's why you only have children you can afford “

i was married, had two dc, that was affordable. Divorced. So as a single parent I struggle.

No, I didn't have it good because I was being abused at that workplace mentally and financially, couldn't eat when I was hungry or take a shower or wash clothes. The same applies to everyone else in a similar position in the world - that's a horrible situation to be in and it's lack of money that put me in that situation. Nothing relative.

Yes and that would be a terrible situation to be in for you but compared to some other countries and situations there it isn't as bad. Or is your situation bad compared to your location and circumstances? You can't really compare your situation to one of a third world countrys type of poverty. I know you want to try and make your point about you being the worst off in the world. But it just isn't the case no matter what extra details you drip feed in or create. I am sorry for the situation you were in I do imagine it would have been bad for you, but I'm not about to take away from someone else's misfortune or dire situation because it's not as bad as you think yours is...

Of course the overall standard of living in U.K. is better than a lot of other countries.

Exactly so everyone's standard of how they feel they are doing is going to be relative to where they live and the circumstances they're in. There isn't a blanket definition here. Even though those who believe they are worse off than others want people to think there is.

what I like about MN is that it is a window into other people's lives that I don't often encounter amongst my friends - but within that diversity, yes, some will be worried about paying utility bills/buying groceries and struggling to pay the rent, others will be posting about how much to pay their cleaner /whether to buy an £80 birthday cake/ how much to tip their hairdresser.

It's possible to have interest/empathy for both - but that doesn't mean because someone has a different set of problems to yours, they shouldn't be able to post here.

@QueenCamilla You could have used the hooker money to go to the job? Gotten a different job? Asked for a salary advance?
However I’m speaking from a logical position. When you’ve already been beaten down so much you DON’T think the same way, and that’s the point of poverty I think.
People say it’s easy to just say ‘do X Y Z’ but you’re not in the same frame of mind as when you’re warm, well fed and with a safety net.

@FlowersforEveryone On a global scale poverty is relative. But we have standards and measures on what it is in the U.K. those are the only ones relevant to the discussion.

You can’t compare the 6th richest country in the world to a developing one. And poverty isn’t just a moral problem. A healthy, stable educated workforce = vibrant economy. Less crime, higher standards of living etc. Who’s going to buy goods and services from local sellers if everyone’s too poor?
Countries like China, India have so much poverty, but also opportunities because of population size. We’re a small island, we need and can afford for all our citizens to be well fed, educated and securely housed.