to think that some people just don't get poverty?

[Ohsoworried]

I've seen a few posts recently where people earning a fair bit of money (think around 100k a year) are complaining that they're struggling with money, don't have enough etc. I DO understand that it is all relative but equally, for people like me on a low low wage, in insecure housing, wondering how I'm going to pay rent, having to stop paying in to my pension for the extra £30 a month etc it does make me cringe a little. Things are a little better for me at the moment but it has been hard and my secondment is up soon so back down to low pay. When I left my abusive ex I was living in poverty. And when I mean poverty I mean in a refuge, no job because I had to relocate, no money for a deposit to rent etc. It's the choice between being able to downsize your house, not go on holiday for a couple of years, make sacrifices but still live comfortably etc, compared with not knowing if you'll be able to afford your bills. Of course I'm generalising and I'm sure there are people out there who are genuinely on high wages but have high mortgage payments etc who are struggling. I do sympathise. But I don't always think this is the case...

On a global scale poverty is relative.

Exactly this is all I am pointing out. But there can be relative compared to your burdens or a number of circumstances that change beyond control etc. Doing it tough and what is poverty for your situation is relative to every individuals circumstances regardless of their income. Someone on 10k a year might be living fine where they live and while their situation is stable but someone on 25k may have a different situation and circumstances causing them to struggle because they have less to live off and afford necessities due to a vast number of reasons. Perhaps the issue is using the word "poverty" and those who believe their situation is worse don't think it should be used by anyone else.

But as others have mentioned, people have the right to post about any and every problem regardless if it rates as important to the next person or not, those people can just not reply... This thread does seem to be a competition though over who has it worse. I have not actually seen anyone complaining about costs of something by choice or struggling with affording certain things being labelled as actual poverty. That label came up in this thread

@FlowersforEveryone totally agree. Poverty is relative. Also peoples problems and the perceived seriousness of them are relative. Someone is always worse off.

Ultimately though, peoples problems are important to them and it’s fine to ask for advice on mn regardless of your income level. Tbf op did say that wasn’t what she meant in her post.

@QueenCamilla I am sorry about what happened to you. I used to work in social work as a young person and I saw many people who needed help. Out of interest why didn’t you present as homeless to the local authority? Was it immigration status? Perhaps things have changed but in the old days you would have got help anyway.

poverty isn’t “designed by society”. It’s just reality that there have always been poorer and richer people. We are lucky in our society that we have welfare benefits, a minimum wage, free education and so on. In other countries people are often happy to work for food.

Poverty is relative as its not the same on a global scale. The world's wealth is concentrated in the West whilst the global poor pay perpetual debt to the West who then use it to provide welfare to their own relatively poor citizens.

African countries are paying massive debt to the West and their poor are much worse off as a result. They are effectively sending money to us - the global rich - and we use it within our welfare system.

Reality is being poor in Europe is NOT the same as being poor in Africa. Extreme poverty isn't located in Europe.

But it is in Africa.

Poverty is not the same anywhere and is relative. Children still work in poor countries instead of going to school, including mining which leads to our mobile phones. You don't see this in the West....do you?

Just wow! I empathesise with you @TheBatKeeper I really do. But this thread is about poverty, not all the other awful things that can happen to a person.

Imagine those who have similar circumstances to you, but live in poverty? Do you not think that financial instability would grind those people down even further?

But this thread is about poverty, not all the other awful things that can happen to a person.

Because "all the other awful things that can happen to a person" doesn't result in poverty...
Illness and disability can lead to poverty even if you were once "well off"....

Extreme poverty isn't located in Europe.

I disagree.
I volunteer at a soup kitchen for on street homeless. Would you not describe living on the streets in the middle of winter, owning nothing more than the contents of a small bag and with zero money extreme poverty? I would.

No, that's just rhetoric. What I posted is actual evidence of where in the world extreme poverty is located.

Europe and other Western countries are in green for a reason.

Africa, where extreme poverty truly exists, is NOT in green apart from one country north of the Sahara.

You can’t compare the 6th richest country in the world to a developing one.
In the same way as you cannot compare the income level of someone who spent a decade getting professional qualifications vs someone who was solidly on drugs with a couple of criminal convictions by the end of secondary school. My sympathy goes to a teacher in an African village, to be honest, rather than to some poor people I met in the UK. In general, I find the sense of entitlement to something just because due to a random draw of luck you were born on a certain territory quite bizarre.

And there's absolutely no way out of this street poverty? No government programs to support homeless, no way of getting free housing or education if they wish so, no welfare system, no volunteers in the society who can afford to spend their time in soup kitchens instead of working every hour under the sun for money to feed their own children?

And there's absolutely no way out of this street poverty?
Apparently not.
We see the same faces year after year and they die something like 40 years younger that average.
Are you saying these people ARE NOT in extreme poverty?
And if not, what do you describe as extreme poverty?

Speak for yourself! Disabled people are not a monolith , including in this experience. As a person with a lifelong disability, I had no problem getting DLA at 16and my transition to PIP wasn't a problem. My PIP has just increased recently too.

I really don't see the dehumanising or danger here. In fact, I worked out I've received more money under the Conservatives than I ever did under Labour. As a result, I now have at least 6 months worth of emergency savings as savings recommended by Martin Lewis.

I think most disabled people are able to claim without much bother. Especially since most have lifelong conditions that won't change. Rest are in employment Like myself.

Is that because there's genuinely no way out? No shelter programmes, no welfare support, no training opportunities?

I know a few people who professionally work (-ed) with homeless. They all seem to be of an opinion that it is not a problem that is solved by throwing money at it, and that it will persist in the richest of societies.

Not that work for them, no. They just can't manage the life admin it takes.
My view if that we should just provide free homes for these people. Build blocks of studio flats, the 24 hours reception, no bills. So they have shelter. Instead we try to force them into managing rent and bill payments, skills interviews etc. A minority of people just can't do it.

Look again at the chart I posted showing where extreme poverty is located in the world today.

It's not surprising it's located in the African continent.....is it? Those countries are in debt to us and cannot adequately help their own poor as a result.

The poor we have in the West do have options those in Africa don't have.

Due to the high social cost of homelessness, right across Europe there are programmes and initiatives to tackle homelessness. This is not the same on the African continent.

It's better to be poor in Europe than in African countries. That's a reality borne out by statistics.

It shows poverty is NOT the same anywhere.

Anyway, back to my question. Do you describe someone living on the street with almost no possessions and no money as living in extreme poverty? And if not, then who is?

Most countries in Africa have between 25% and 50% of the population in extreme poverty. Some have up to 75% in extreme poverty.

Europe? Between 0.01% and 1% of the population is classed as in poverty. Statistics show that there's no extreme poverty in Europe like there is in Africa.

The West has various measures which African countries don't have due to being in debt to us.

Most countries in Africa have between 25% and 50% of the population in extreme poverty. Some have up to 75% in extreme poverty.

Europe? Between 0.01% and 1% of the population is classed as in poverty. Statistics show that there's no extreme poverty in Europe like there is in Africa.

The West has various measures which African countries don't have due to being in debt to us.

Yes, this is extreme poverty. But I would argue this is through choice rather than necessity. If tomorrow one of them suddenly decided to turn their life around and become say a software developer or a doctor, there's a clear way how they could do that and they will be supported at every step of the way.
There's no such chance for a bright kid from an African village.

What you describe (completely free managed shelters, free to come and go) is exactly what they do in Germany, I think. And there's still street homelessness.

Besides, I can't believe I'm ever getting into this. Are people seriously arguing that the only people living in poverty in the world are destitute in Africa and everyone else is lucky?

Demonstrably false

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/dwp-pip-disabled-benefit-uk-b2009256.html

Seriously, someone street homeless for years could just decide to become a doctor one day and do it?

My very middle class A* student daughter wants to be a doctor, we've been looking into it and only 25% of applications to medical school get places. Maybe it's street homeless getting the other 75% of places?

Seriously, someone street homeless for years could just decide to become a doctor one day and do it?

My very middle class A* student daughter wants to be a doctor, we've been looking into it and only 25% of applications to medical school get places. Maybe it's street homeless getting the other 75% of places?

No, not only in Africa, there are many more locations in the world with a similar, or worse, conditions.

The OP complained about how unempathetic "rich" British people are to her and not understanding her struggles, and my point was that people like her are similarly not understanding the struggles of many, many people around the globe who are light years away from her lifestyle.

Ironically, the thread got flooded by posters stating that it is a false equivalence as they were lucky to be born in a 6th rich country and therefore deserve better just by the virtue of the birthplace lottery.

No, not only in Africa, there are many more locations in the world with a similar, or worse, conditions.

The OP complained about how unempathetic "rich" British people are to her and not understanding her struggles, and my point was that people like her are similarly not understanding the struggles of many, many people around the globe who are light years away from her lifestyle.

Ironically, the thread got flooded by posters stating that it is a false equivalence as they were lucky to be born in a 6th rich country and therefore deserve better just by the virtue of the birthplace lottery.

No, not only in Africa, there are many more locations in the world with a similar, or worse, conditions.

The OP complained about how unempathetic "rich" British people are to her and not understanding her struggles, and my (and other posters) point was that people like her are similarly not understanding the struggles of many, many people around the globe who are light years away from her lifestyle.

Ironically, the thread got flooded by posters stating that it is a false equivalence as they were lucky to be born in a 6th rich country and therefore deserve better just by the virtue of the birthplace lottery. And in any case, they have it worse than everyone else.