to think that some people just don't get poverty?

[Ohsoworried]

I've seen a few posts recently where people earning a fair bit of money (think around 100k a year) are complaining that they're struggling with money, don't have enough etc. I DO understand that it is all relative but equally, for people like me on a low low wage, in insecure housing, wondering how I'm going to pay rent, having to stop paying in to my pension for the extra £30 a month etc it does make me cringe a little. Things are a little better for me at the moment but it has been hard and my secondment is up soon so back down to low pay. When I left my abusive ex I was living in poverty. And when I mean poverty I mean in a refuge, no job because I had to relocate, no money for a deposit to rent etc. It's the choice between being able to downsize your house, not go on holiday for a couple of years, make sacrifices but still live comfortably etc, compared with not knowing if you'll be able to afford your bills. Of course I'm generalising and I'm sure there are people out there who are genuinely on high wages but have high mortgage payments etc who are struggling. I do sympathise. But I don't always think this is the case...

Very true

Thank you
it really means a lot

Dp has a professional qualification and earns an average salary, as a team leader, yet, still drives 60 miles to clean on a Saturday. She doesn't have to.
Even now whilst planning the baby, she's thinking of adding some kind of income whilst she's off on maternity with full pay for 6 months.
Her brother clears over £2300 washing up in a restaurant, he works up to 70 per week. His wife supplements this income with part-time work in a factory.

This is the mindset of people who come from other countries with no social provision. Sit and politicize poverty with those people and they'll laugh in your face.

The problem is that it really is all relative. My dad grew up in poverty in the East End in the 1930s. He often didn't have shoes (unless given by the Salvation Army. Ditto Christmas and birthday presents), went hungry most of the time, and his family lived in one room above his aunt's house (after his home was bombed during the war). To me that is poverty but today it is mostly unimaginable because even the very poor wouldn't understand what it was like to live like that. And yes, I know it's not 'a race to the bottom', I'm just trying to illustrate how people's perception of poverty is different.

Tbf we have a decent monthly income, but we still buy clothes off eBay and Vinted.😂
I'm not buying my expensive kids' clothes, they grow out of them in a week.

It's the 21st century, mate!

In the 6th richest country in the world...

(Is that you Jacob rees mogg???)

This very statement shows how people with lots of money don't get it. If you're childless not by choice, with money you have private healthcare IVF options, or adoption routes, not available to poor people. If you have poor mental health, eg 'not happy' you can buy counselling sessions, have more time off work etc. Money gives you options to get out of bad situations in life, and even when it doesn't eg terminal cancer, it can make life more comfortable in that horrid situation.
Whilst OPs poverty is not directly caused by you, poverty is absolutely and deliberately caused by a broken society and system that can at times distribute resources very unfairly, such as mentioned in that 'buying good quality long lasting boots' example.

@TheBatKeeper , so sorry to hear of your troubles and hope you’re healthy as can be these days, but the OP is not saying that others don’t have it hard, ie health challenges, so don’t shame or guilt trip her. What’s the point of that and how is it relevant to this discussion? She’s had it tough financially- this is what’s being discussed here.
Again, I genuinely hope you are well these days and remain so.

And OP, it is shit being poor. I went to a private school on a scholarship and lived in a hovel compared to others. My mother drove an old banger which was quite embarrassing at the hallowed school gates alongside the audis and ferraris.

In my youth there were no food banks and my mother would make a veggie soup to last the week, with cheap bread. Only if we had a bit extra could we afford cheese on top. My father was (is) a cunt who would hide money so we could only have very little maintenance each month whilst he would swan off skiing with his new wife and her children. I have been NC for nearly a decade now. It is shit struggling and having to worry about where the next bill, meal or petrol money will materialize from.

I do agree that some don't seem to understand. Someone I know works for universal credit, and at least half the claims they get are people earning 30 - 50k per year or more who won't get any uc but made the claim because they either recently had a baby or one of a couple went down 10k a year due to going part time, so for example from 60 to 50k a year.

I still remember them mentioning a long discussion a casemanger had over the phone with an irrate claimant demanding to know how he can raise his two kids on 2k a month. The agent handling the phone call was at the time the sole breadwinner to wife and three kids and earned around 1.3k a month so was a very odd conversation.

@Hrpuffnstuff1 coming from singapore where we went from third world to first world, i can tell you we definitely didn't talk about redistribution from the rich to the poor in our early years of independence. Emphasis was on low taxes to attract businesses, forcing people to save for their own healthcare and retirement and to buy a flat (20% of income per month, plus employer top up 16%; this still exists). Lots of rhetoric about self reliance. Now the government is paying the health insurance premiums of low income workers, free GP appointments for the poor, increasing income taxes, even talking about wealth taxes and inheritance taxes.

Does that mean that they were wrong in the past to only focus on economic growth than on the living standards of the poor (everyone was poor back then except for a tiny percentage). No its because the priorities change as a nation becomes richer. The UK is a rich country, the growth potential is limited as it is already developed (unlike India who can have double digit growth and millions are lifted out of poverty as a result).. The UK has no choice but to focus on its poor people as the bottom line not doing well means the country does not do well...

Also in poor countries, you work hard and save a lot because there is no safety net but at the same time, it is relatively cheaper to purchase healthcare and education just by working very very hard. It is not possible for the average uk citizen to pay for all medical treatment or private school fees so the government has to provide such services using taxation revenue. Also there is so much wealth in the uk that it is entirely possible if we allow more wealth to be accumulated in the hands of the few, it is possible that the average home could become 20X an average income, even basic food has waitrose style prices simply because the demand is there (and there are many people able to pay it). Then we have 30-50% of the population unable to buy anything and this is a drag on the economy- as well as the health problems, social problems that would result from the neglect of the poor and middle class

So what is hard work, quantify the definition, 30 hrs, 40hrs, 60 hrs, 80 hrs?

I wouldn’t be so sure.

also it’s disgusting having people with multiple homes and more money than they can spend in a lifetime while children starve. Especially as they didn’t do anything particular special to hoard all that wealth.

it’s disgusting that people who perform key roles in society are under valued and under paid.

There's a lot to untangle, however being forced into a mindset of firm fiscal foundations is a great skill set to have. We've made sure our mortgage payments are manageable on a min wage salary. Just in case.

Most lottery winners end up broke and poor, so it's not just a case of throwing money at the poor.
Housing is a structural issue, the aging population with overlapping generations is a huge issue, trillions are trapped, intergenerational wealth and taxes are stuck as people live significantly longer. There's a whole host of issues converging to create a semblance of chaos.

Forced into this mindset by whom? The ultra Rich?

For whose benefit? The ultra rich.

We've made sure our mortgage payments are manageable on a min wage salary. Just in case.

Good luck getting a mortgage on disability benefits.

We've made sure our mortgage payments are manageable on a min wage salary. Just in case.

Good luck getting a mortgage on disability benefits.

I get it OP. Sometimes even close friends dont get it or dont get the worry that comes with it.

I remember being white with fear about money. I have no truck with people pleading poverty when they have no understanding of what it means.

People in my home country, Singapore, save 53.8% of their income. Literally. Not difficult to see why when government forces you to save 36% of your income and then they save some more for their own savings pot. Most singaporeans live in government housing (and the home ownership rate is 89%) so unless they take out their mortgage with a bank rather than the housing board, there is no chance of their home being repossessed by the government as even in the case of unemployment. I had an aunt whose had 50% of her housing loan forgiven for compassionate grounds as her DH had passed on. So as a whole, the country is extremely fiscally prudent, saving 50% of your salary is extremely commendable and its hard to see how many people can realistically do this in the UK. yet in singapore, there are lots of people who haven't saved enough for retirement, who have money problems similar to people in the uk, people who can't afford to buy food (though not on the same scale, though the measures for measuring poverty are a bit dubious).

Its not the savings/being fiscally prudent that is the problem. Its the fact that like most developed countries in the world with the exception of the scandinavian countries (who are a little more advanced in this regard), there is a poverty and wealth inequality problem in both singapore and the uk.

I am not talking about throwing money, I am talking about investing in infrastructure and in schemes which would help the poor out of poverty. After all they are 20% of the population and growing.

Work, everyone has to work?
Learning how to budget and make prudent decisions financially is a great personal and family asset. Having money doesn't stop that from being a truism.

So it's a personal benefit.

People in my home country, Singapore, save 53.8% of their income. Literally. Not difficult to see why when government forces you to save 36% of your income and then they save some more for their own savings pot. Most singaporeans live in government housing (and the home ownership rate is 89%) so unless they take out their mortgage with a bank rather than the housing board, there is no chance of their home being repossessed by the government as even in the case of unemployment. I had an aunt whose had 50% of her housing loan forgiven for compassionate grounds as her DH had passed on. So as a whole, the country is extremely fiscally prudent, saving 50% of your salary is extremely commendable and its hard to see how many people can realistically do this in the UK. yet in singapore, there are lots of people who haven't saved enough for retirement, who have money problems similar to people in the uk, people who can't afford to buy food (though not on the same scale, though the measures for measuring poverty are a bit dubious).

Its not the savings/being fiscally prudent that is the problem. Its the fact that like most developed countries in the world with the exception of the scandinavian countries (who are a little more advanced in this regard), there is a poverty and wealth inequality problem in both singapore and the uk.

Everyone has to work?

Oh, you are funny 😁

No, they don't.

Just look at the level of inherited wealth, wealth from slavery (inuding our own dear royal family) wealth from wars and arms dealing, wealth gained from keeping others in poverty...

Like pp, I had hoped that covid would make people realise how important so called low skilled jobs are to society. Carers, shop workers, delivery drivers...

How important volunteers are to helping the vulnerable....The foodbank I run saw usage increase 10 fold in the 1st lockdown.

But...no.

People have very short memories it seems.

I think you need to separate wealth inequality from poverty they're not wholly related.

If you've never been really hungry how could you know what it felt like? I think It is the same with poverty. I had a school friend who said she often went hungry, the whole family not just her. I felt sorry for her and took her in food to school but I did not know how it felt to be really hungry. I give to food banks and donate items free but I don't know what it is like to be in terrible poverty. I can imagine the worry and distress it will cause but not know.