to think that some people just don't get poverty?

[Ohsoworried]

I've seen a few posts recently where people earning a fair bit of money (think around 100k a year) are complaining that they're struggling with money, don't have enough etc. I DO understand that it is all relative but equally, for people like me on a low low wage, in insecure housing, wondering how I'm going to pay rent, having to stop paying in to my pension for the extra £30 a month etc it does make me cringe a little. Things are a little better for me at the moment but it has been hard and my secondment is up soon so back down to low pay. When I left my abusive ex I was living in poverty. And when I mean poverty I mean in a refuge, no job because I had to relocate, no money for a deposit to rent etc. It's the choice between being able to downsize your house, not go on holiday for a couple of years, make sacrifices but still live comfortably etc, compared with not knowing if you'll be able to afford your bills. Of course I'm generalising and I'm sure there are people out there who are genuinely on high wages but have high mortgage payments etc who are struggling. I do sympathise. But I don't always think this is the case...

Yes, I agree OP, I think lots of people, probably including me, don’t know what it’s like to really have to go without. We struggled during nursery fees etc but not to the point where we couldn’t afford to eat. The recent increases might mean we have to forgo something like a caravan holiday but we’ll manage. I cringe when I hear people who are clearly very comfortably off complaining about the extra when they know nothing of how it must be to live in poverty.

You have no idea how hard it is to get disability benefits.

Single parent. Disabled. Disabled kids too. Housing help didn't cover all my rent and I got no maintenance
I believe if all claim DLA/pip, plus carer, IS and everything else, that would be the equivalent of an income much above the average employed income. Not a fortune but not poverty.

You have no idea how hard it is to get disability benefits
I do. That's another subject though.

I was turned down. Had to go to mandatory reconsideration and then tribunal.

The process was incredibly stressful. And difficult. And designed to get you to give up at every stage.

I don't blame those who did give up.

But to say there's disabled benefits "if you claim all you're entitled to" is simplistic and ignores the reality of claiming

My brother is like this.
He has this idea that he can just drift along put the minimum effort in and he and his wife will be ok.
He messages every month to borrow money, he has a business, seasonal, yet when it's a long sunny day, where is he, either watching pointless or playing on his PlayStation. He's in the middle of retraining, yet he's moaning about how hard the exams and training are. Boo-hoo. Grammar school educated, qualifications, etc.
His wife is just as bad, she keeps choosing jobs that are a road to know where.
FGS, they drive me mad.

But to say there's disabled benefits "if you claim all you're entitled to" is simplistic and ignores the reality of claiming
I never said it was easy, but you did get it in the end. Many things are not easy in life. That's where the 'working hard' comes in.

Some people are indeed suffering from genuine poverty. Hopefully for most it's a temporary measure, but for some, it isn't and this is horrendous. I agree with OP. Most of us don't have a clue what it is like.

I don’t think I worked harder than many other people around me who didn’t achieve what I did.

I don’t think the amount of work I did was, in anyway, exceptional - and that’s the point I’m making.

you’re implying that you’ve worked harder than those that didn’t make it, and I just don’t buy it.

There’s a great YouTube video of people line up for a sprint. Those with certain “advantages” get to take steps forward. The race starts. Everyone runs as fast as they can but those who got to step ahead funnily enough get further ahead! Did they run faster? Harder? Nope. They just got that head start.

This was to @vivainsomnia

Well to be honest, nobody truly "gets" anything unless you have personally lived that experience. So you can do your best to imagine what it's like to not have enough money for x,y,z l. You can be informed and sympathetic as much as possible - but that will never be the same as the reality of it. I'm not sure what you are asking people to do OP?

I've worked harder than people who have taken the same path but haven't had to work 2 jobs from the time they're 14 and be a carer for a family member alongside studying, doesn't mean though that people who haven't achieved as highly haven't worked hard or that people I work at the same level also haven't worked hard. I don't know why people get so defensive, I'm proud of what I have achieved against the odds and don't think it's bad towards others to acknowledge that. It's not a competition but it's a way of keeping people in their box a bit I think.

Really well done. You did amazing.

I don’t think I worked harder than many other people around me who didn’t achieve what I did
Then you were one of the lucky ones. Lucky you.

I can definitely say that it is hard work that got me where I am. Actually, it's ot me saying it but those who followed through the journey. I had many 'I really don't know how you do it/did it.

So it confirms, some are lucky, others have worked harder.

Businesses use a strategy called bundling, so they offer multiple products or services to generate revenue.
Humans have to behave in the same manner, over time, 2-3 jobs, qualifications, etc, you have to make strategic decisions to enable a strong secure income.
I targetted a niche area which means I can basically charge what I like. Everyone I speak to says they couldn't be arsed with what I do but it gives us the life we have.

A good example a few months ago when a poster was worried she couldn't afford the bus fare to get to work any more and another poster helpfully suggested "get an electric bike"

Of course people don't get it, but it irritating how tone deaf some can be. The electric car crowd for example.

“Fizbosshoes
I don't pretend to fully understand poverty because I'm fortunate enough not to have experienced it. But I hope I have some idea and some empathy.”

I agree with this. Unless you’ve walked a mile in someone’s shoes it’s almost impossible to fully understand what it’s like - same with being disabled, having experienced trauma or a serious health issue etc.

Difference is how people empathise with others and to use a MN phrase stop being ‘tone deaf’ - by reading the news, mixing with a variety of people etc.

Thing is this is just an anonymous Internet forum and having a conversation about holidays (whatever) is allowed/going to happen so you have to block out the truly tone deaf threads. If you have well off friends spouting nonsense about how hard it is with 2 mortgages that’s very different.

As I said hard work is one factor. It’s not the only one. but we all have at least some opportunities and hard work helps make the best of them.

you now seem to be saying you did work hard (but not harder than “many” others around you). Did you or didn’t you work hard? Did you work hard at school or go to university? What about at work? Or did you win the lottery or marry someone wealthy (although some would say that’s the hardest work there is).

in your analogy, i started behind and I had to run faster to catch up with the privileged kids, whose parents could set them up with jobs, buy them flats, etc. My success was harder work than theirs but (to continue the metaphor) we all had to run.

My point is that your example of yourself is unusual. It’s not the norm, which means that we don’t live in a wonderful society where anyone regardless of background can do well in life.

I grew up in a single parent household, my mum had severe mental health issues, and ended up being sectioned and me and my siblings were placed in care. We had no other family to care for us.

I ended up going to university, got a decent job and went from there. I’m the higher earner in our house and a higher rate tax payer.

I don’t think the level of work I did was exceptional. I was lucky in many ways - I had a good social worker and teachers helped me even though I certainly made mistakes along the way.

I am not an exceptional person who worked exceptionally harder compared to others. I was lucky! Many others in my situation ended up in a different place - as they would statistically speaking.

so in my analogy, I didn’t run faster - I was given steps ahead by others around me.

There are many benefits for disabled people if they claim all they are entitled to and rightly so.

To the pp who posted this nonsense, because of people with similar viewpoints as yours decided that unless your head was hanging off and youre either terminal and non verbal (which if you ask the DWP you will get better) claiming disability benefits is a demoralising and de humanising experience, you clearly have no idea what having a disability is like and clearly have no idea how lethal being disabled in Tory UK is

I agree. But when I think of poverty I think about the slums in the city I used to live (abroad) and thank God for a welfare state (albeit far from perfect).

This thread looks interesting abs would like to read but the quotes are making it impossible!

I just received news today that my grandmother is on oxygen support and I may have to fly back to attend her funeral within the next few days. As my home country is 12 hours away, the flight costs is £1200 (usual cost £500). My uncle in America apparently has to pay $12,000 to reschedule his flight to see his mum in April rather than May (the phone reception was very bad, so i may have misheard this, but anyway he can afford it). I am thankful I can afford it without relying on credit. This also happened 5 years ago when my grandfather passed on. It just reminded me that immigrants like myself learn pretty early on that its not enough to just cover basic living costs and that we always need to earn more to cover international travel to see our relatives regularly. Also many immigrants like myself tend to live in cities where housing tends to be more expensive

I think if I was a native brit living in an area where houses are not very expensive and where most of the members of my immediate family are within a 10 mile radius, maybe I might think that I don't need much to survive and would opt for the easy . After all, food prices have been stagnant for 20 years and a lot of people were on cheap fixed term deals for their electricity.second hand cars. If you live near family, maybe you don't need to pay for childcare or you can survive on 1 income as a family (if the mortgage isn't too high as the house is in a cheap area). Easyjet flights. This is all very well, but when there is a cost of living crisis, this cheap lifestyle is the most under threat. It would be a rude awakening for a lot of people. I read on another thread about how society would change- people would become more ambitious and aim to progress beyond minimum wage jobs, putting off marriage and starting a family to do so. Not that people are not doing that now; but I think in many parts of the UK other than SE or London, its not that unusual to start a family inn early 20s esp for school leavers. Might be unusual on mumsnet, but i think mumsnet tends to have older mums; but i think it would be almost unheard of in the future. Simply because even in the cheapest areas in the UK, it would be impossible to survive with a minimum wage job unless living with family (and most people would want to move out in late 20s).

Just as a disclaimer, we definitely need our essential workers, many of whom are on minimum wage! But unless we completely overhaul our system, i don't see how it is possible to survive on minimum wage going forward unless you live in your parents' home or have a richer spouse! its terrible but we are becoming more like the USA...

Average age for first pg is higher than its ever been

Birth rate is declining