AIBU to wonder why so many people assume Johnny Depp is the good guy and Amber Heard is the villain? ..

[Cowslip4567]

People (from what I am reading in a variety of places on the internet) seem to have decided this even before the trial has been concluded. Presumably, we won't know all of the evidence until the trial ends.

The previous trial in the UK concluded that there was indeed evidence that JD was indeed a wife beater. How come everyone feels that they are sure previous trial had the wrong verdict?

But its still DV and saying that its not an equal match is just minimising.

Do people want to get back to the case or are we too far into feminism and dv generally?

Wiki relies on users updating pages, and doesn’t always exactly fact check either

Exactly!

"I’ve just read a really interesting short article in which a psychologist says it’s outrageous to give a histrionic personality disorder in 2022. I’ll try and link it. Linking it back to hysterical women."

Well Heard does seem fairly hysterical, screaming at everyone and losing her temper all the time as well as her repeated violence to various people. Her moods, lies, projections and refusal to take any responsibility for her actions suggest a very disturbed woman.

Others such as H G Tudor have suggested she is a narcissist and that seems quite probable as well. Both disorders have shared traits.

I suspect the psychologist who wrote the article has feminist leanings. It's a favourite deflection of feminists to make every criticism of a woman an example of sexism and link it back to old notions of hysteria.

That would be interesting to read I'm aware that BPD is an out of date term and there is a school of thought that many people diagnosed with BPD actually have PTSD so would be interested to see what it says.

"Do people want to get back to the case or are we too far into feminism and dv generally?"

The problem is people's beliefs and attitudes about domestic violence and feminism often inform and mould there beliefs about who is the abuser or the most abusive. This is getting to the root of why people believe what they do about this very bad relationship.

To put it crudely, those who think of themselves as feminists and believe domestic violence is overwhelmingly something men do to women are more likely to believe Heard and those who are not feminists and think domestic violence victims are far more evenly distributed among both sexes are more likely to believe Depp given the evidence.

You have to register to read it so I’ve copied it ( it’s in the independent)

“Debunked” psychological diagnoses of Amber Heard must be immediately discounted, a prominent psychologist has said.
Dr Jessica Taylor’s warning comes after a psychologist hired by Johnny Depp’s legal team to evaluate Ms Heard, his ex-wife, testified she has borderline personality disorder and histrionic personality disorder.
Mr Depp, a Hollywood actor, is currently embroiled in a high-profile defamation lawsuit against fellow actor Ms Heard in Virginia in the US. Mr Depp sued Ms Heard in March 2019, claiming a column she wrote for The Washington Post about domestic abuse was defamatory and requested $50m in damages. Ms Heard submitted a $100m countersuit.
Although the article does not include any reference to Mr Depp, his legal team argues the piece contains a “clear implication that Mr Depp is a domestic abuser”, which they maintain is “categorically and demonstrably false”.
Speaking to The Independent, Dr Taylor, who examines the pathologisation of women in mental health settings, said that in her view the two disorders the psychologist diagnosed Ms Heard with are "not proven medical conditions" but are instead "highly contested controversial psychiatric labels".

Next section in a mo

Dr Taylor, who also specialises in sexual violence and victim-blaming, said she has not "heard anyone use the term ‘histrionic personality disorder’ unironically in years, and suggested it is a “debunked disorder”.
The psychologist, previously a senior lecturer in Forensic and Criminological Psychology at the University of Derby, said: “Histrionic personality disorder was borne out of the ‘hysteria’ diagnosis, which could only be given to women.”
Dr Taylor explained the term “hysterical woman” in the 1968 edition of the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorder was changed to “histrionic woman” in a revised version of the manual in 1980 after “top psychiatrists theorised that ‘histrionic women were labile, egocentric, seductive, frigid, and childish’.”
She added: “Hysteria and histrionic personality disorder became known as the ‘wastebasket of mental health’, with many influential scholars rejecting their existence.
“Women could be diagnosed with these terms for not smiling enough, not giving men enough sex, being lesbian or bisexual, being too assertive, too opinionated, leaving their husbands, or even reading too many books.

“It is outrageous that in 2022, a psychologist would testify on the stand that a woman has ‘histrionic personality disorder’.”
Dr Taylor argued similar arguments could be made about borderline personality disorder, which she branded “yet another junk diagnosis thrown at women”, as she noted women are at least seven times more likely to be diagnosed with the disorder than men.
She said Borderline Personality Disorder was borne from Histrionic Personality Disorder, they are overlapping constructs in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, and “one is borne from the other”.
Dr Taylor also noted Dr Shannon Curry, the psychologist hired by Mr Depp, had suggested borderline personality and histrionic personality disorder have a “genetic basis”, but Taylor hit out at this assertion.

She added: “There has never been any proof of genetic basis of any personality disorders, and so this is categorically false. No gene has been found for any mental health disorder, and the American Psychiatric Association agree that at the current time, we do not know the relationship between biology and psychiatric disorder.”
Dr Taylor argued a man’s mental health is routinely used to “position him as vulnerable and victimised”, while conversely, women’s mental health is wielded to cast her as being “deviant and dangerous".

I would prefer to discuss the case but it seems I may be in a minority!

Marilyn Manson is now suing Evan Rachel Wood for defamation, apparently, due to her accusations which have derailed his career.

Thank you
I am surprised at what the US Court is allowing as evidence to be honest.

I think our system of expert witnesses is probably more reliable

😮

This is excellent testimony. I think both of them have mental health issues, personality issues, anger issues, trauma and I think both of them need to be a million miles from each other. The End.

I would prefer if a psychological profile of both Johnny and Amber were undertaken by an independent expert appointed by the court (perhaps funded by both parties) and the lawyers were then allowed to ask questions in court about the findings.

The forensic psychologist hired by Johnny Depp sounds very confident and plausible - and indeed might be giving an accurate account - but I cannot help but feel that the circumstances in which she arrived at her conclusions are unfair.

This Dr Jessica Taylor?

www.mumsnet.com/talk/feminism/4530716-dr-jessica-taylor-using-people-s-data-without-permission

Quite horrific if true

I don’t know. I read the article and agreed with the sentiments expressed, also thought they would be interesting to share. Are you saying that what is being said on that thread discredits her knowledge? Or just that she’s not a respectable person? Or you don’t agree and it supports your views?

I didnt know her either but it seems that if she was willing to steal peoples stories for financial gain I think it brings her credibility into question, perhaps her article in the indy was for the money and the increased visibility for her books due to the readership of the indy and ongoing interesting in the case, Im not saying she isnt right in her opinion, but as I said it may bring her objectivity and credibility into question but for me its just more data to inform me of my opinion which is ever evolving in this case

Well we don’t know she was stealing them, she’s denied it. Having found her Twitter feed though she seems like someone I want to follow.

Did something come out yesterday about the money that AH said that she had donated to charity? I'm trying to find out but not having much luck, I think it involves Elon Musk too.

They had the charity going through donations. I think (it was really boring tbh) depp paid 100k in her name, she paid x amount and then Musk paid through some sort of vehicle. It wasn’t what she said she would pay but there seemed to be a schedule over ten years appear and at one point she’d have been over the yearly payments but also she said she had financial issues due to the lawsuits. I’ll try and find a summary.

www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/amber-heard-aclu-donation-depp-b2067712.html?amp
Position at December 2021 when it was recorded

Are you saying that what is being said on that thread discredits her knowledge? Or just that she’s not a respectable person? Or you don’t agree and it supports your views?

If this is Dr Jessica Taylor we're talking about, it's useful to understand her ethical/theoretical position in context. I have seen the allegations about her using others' data without permission, a fact she strenuously denies. If the default position is 'believe the victim', this leaves her in something of a pickle. Whatever is the case, such an allegation is extremely damaging to the reputation of any practising psychiatrist.

About her position in general, Taylor is very anti-psychiatry, seems to take the position that a good deal of diagnosable mental health disorders are not only 'made up', but are used to pathologize and discredit primarily female victims of trauma. Trauma, she argues, requires a different treatment pathway. On this she's correct, but in her dismissive stance toward mental health conditions and particularly toward medication, which she strongly advocates against, I have a sneaking suspicion that some of the advice she peddles might be dangerous. A number of women have pointed out to her how medication has been beneficial to them, but any counter, anecdotal suggestions that go against her theories are usually vehemently dismissed.

As a working class trauma victim herself, I admire what she's achieved but of late have had growing reservations. I've stopped following her.

You hear a lot about him being a wife beater - yet no one calls her a husband beater - which he admits to! She’s also lied about the make up used to cover her bruises. Faked a broken nose by pouring red lipstick on a piece of tissue. Jesus. This whole thing is a mess.

I don't think whether men or women are most likely to commit violence is really relevant to the case.
I expected to see good evidence that Johnny Depp hit Amber Heard following the verdict in the UK and I'm quite surprised that there isn't any. In contrast there is evidence that she was violent towards him. She has admitted hitting him on tape and and many witnesses have given evidence that she was abusive to him rather than the other way around. None of his ex partner's have said he was abusive to them- quite the opposite. She on the other hand has previously been arrested for domestic abuse of a partner.