That her words about the UK really depressed me?

[NaturalScone]

Talking to a Swedish colleague this afternoon, not had much of a chance to in the past and we ended up discussing the news.
She mentioned how peculiar our politics were, how we have such a massive wealth divide (as we all know) with little encouragement for people from all walks of life and backgrounds to have equal opportunities. By this she meant how Uni education is funded over there so nobody is in debt, which means many more young people are able to chase professional careers, without massive debt.
Also, the work ethic, how people in Northern Europe are encouraged to prioritise health and wellbeing as well as work, and how well housing, health, etc work over there.

I stupidly mentioned Boris J and she said he would likely already be sacked or various offences. I also didn't know that many European monarchs had to either self fund (?) or had most of their palaces belonging to the public.

Are we going backwards here? It left me feeling pretty depressed. I see people on here all the time saying we are so lucky here, but I think the bar is set really low compared to much of Europe. And now we are less connected to Europe, many people here only judge our standards by the US, as if the EU is somehow 'foreign'.
It all sounds a bit scary if I think about it, we do seem so easily led by a one-party representational media/press (right). And whilst I am not generally partisan, I do feel weirdly uncomfortable. She even said the tories were set to abolish channel 4 and soon the BBC because they were too neutral. I find that fairly terrifying and wonder where we re headed. I previously considered Brexit an issue of immigration, but to be honest I now wonder if that was a red herring and the true motivation was to get us clear of having to take on EU worker's rights and values.

I usually look for the positives in what we've got, because it feels better than admitting things are that bad, but now I just don't know. And not much I can do about it either!
Something does feel harsher and more divided nowadays, and politicians are able to do anything without fear of reprisal. The UK press is incredibly dire! Do other people see this?

I’m from Scotland originally, but have moved a lot and lived in various countries including in Europe. We live in France just now.

firstly, the whole “ah but you choose to live here!” gotcha is nothing but. People move for a huge number of reasons. One place being “better” than another is very subjective. I agree wholeheartedly with the pps who point out that the UK is very attractive to immigrants for many reasons that have nothing to do with quality of life - it’s English speaking, no ID cards, no residence checks when accessing healthcare, huge cash-in-hand black economy to work in. France, by comparison, has excellent healthcare but you have to prove that you are eligible to access it: easy enough for anyone in a ‘regular’ situation, much harder if you don’t have ID / visa / work permit, are working on the black etc. But my point is that people don’t generally just move on a whim because they decide one place is “better” than another. DH and I are ready to move on from France now, but the kids are established in good schools with important exams coming up, I’ve got a job that would be tricky to replicate elsewhere… it’s not just a straightforward assessment that somewhere else is “better” than another, it’s a decision that takes a whole range of personal and external factors into account - and the quality of life available is only one of them.

Yes, it could be free healthcare which attracts many to the UK.
I have a Greek tenant in my let apartment. I understood she would return to Greece once she retired but now it seems she is keeping a foot in the uk as the health care is so much better.

So do we national insurance is a tax !

I think the main problem with us is that we do not question enough. The UK system is based in honour and trust, which is commendable but also very susceptible to abuse.

We trust those in positions of power far too much, from the police to the government. We asume we are better off than other countries, which is true in some aspects but the fact other countries are doing worse shouldn’t be an obstacle for us to check what is happening in our own country and how to improve the situation.

We also overvalue apologies, whether it is a child being a bully in the school ground or Boris lying to Parliament, we all are happy to close the case if an apology is produced, when the apology should be only the start of reparations.

It is not good enough to keep pointing what other countries do worse, when we should be concentrating on what we could be doing better.

Of course Swedish people think Sweden is better. Because in our mind it is better. Sweden is better at everything than anyone else.

There is a way to do things and there is the Swedish way of doing things.. and our way is the right way. I don’t think we can help but think this way. I’ve yet to see anyone do things better than us.

I think it’s the default of Swedish people to believe we do things better and that Sweden is better than anywhere else. Even if we are living abroad we probably are thinking in our head “this would never happen in Sweden” or “Sweden does it this way and it’s much better”.

But again.. no country is doing everything 100% right all the time.

One thing I will say is that the UK government is the most atrocious, poorly run, peanut gallery I’ve ever seen in my adult life. Due to this it’s a poorly run nation.. you can’t be led by idiots and think you’re going to get things done as they should. Boris has absolutely no respect for the people of the nation he governs.

And yes.. Swedish people do take great interest in the politics of our land as well. We are not at all apathetic as some would have you believe. Hence why we throw politicians out on their asses when they do something we don’t like.

It’s shocking to me that Boris is still in office. At this point what would he have to do? Kill a baby on live tv to be thrown out? Even then I’m not sure he would go. We wouldn’t have a politician like this blatantly flouting rules and disrespectful like this here. He would be voted out in no confidence. Which we have done before to politicians.

I agree with all of her points. But Scandinavians generally are raised to be pretty loyal and conformist to their largely trustworthy governments, so it's partly that you're hearing. I'd love to have faith in a decent govt.

It’s certainly not controversial to say a country that deigns to elect Boris Johnson (whatever the state of the opposition was at the time) is in a very bad way.

Sweden has its own problems though. Racism is a huge issue over there.

My first thought was the same as yours, but I found salary calculators for the UK and Sweden, and someone with a 30K salary would have total deductions of 20% in the UK and 35% in Sweden.

(Although from what other posters say, Sweden is a 50% richer country, and salaries would be higher there for the same person.)

Agree too and generally with your pp

One of my best friends is Swedish and she will tell you that they have had more than their fair share of rubbish politicians themselves. Sure, she might have criticisms of the UK, but she also has plenty of criticisms of her own country. UK isnt perfect by any means but I know for a fact that my friend would live here in a heartbeat if her job accommodated it. Ive been to visit her in Sweden and I can tell you now- it was very average, the streets werent paved with gold.

I don't know if it's our ruthless interfering media but unfortunately no one wants to be an MP let alone a PM. And now it involves even putting your life at risk.

Hence we get bad politicians. Boris got in because we Brexitted then floundered in a sea of arguments for 2 years when our development and investment in the UK stopped. Boris said he would get brexit done so got voted in as JC, TM were the more useless alternatives.

Not - as seems to be believed by the present parliament and right wing press because the people loved him - no - we had no other alternatives.
I can't understand Labour trying to oust him as they have a much bigger chance of being voted in if BJ is still in office than if he leaves or is (hopefully) chucked out.

The US politicians are pretty bad too - but what normal person would take that job?

I imagine in smaller non english speaking countries (so possibly not so much at the mercy of Twiitter etc) politicians are still given some respect - so you get better politicians.

Wait, I think I did something wrong. Google tells me 30K GBP is 371,261 Swedish Kroner, and the total deductions on that as an annual salary in are 47.8%.

That sounds too high, so maybe I'm still doing something wrong.

@sst1234

I think the bar you missed was ‘better than France, Germany, Italy’, since they likely crossed those countries to get here.

Quite @MrsTerryPratchett

She’s correct.

High AND UNAVOIDABLE levels of tax generate enough cash to pay for university fees healthcare and generous benefits. It’s the most equal society I’ve ever seen. The mentality is different.

For example in Denmark, you can take two years off after university until you find your perfect job

@sst1234
Where to start?
lockdown enthusiasts complaining that inflation is running away with itself when they were curtain twitching and talking on this very forum about reporting neighbours. As well as idiotically banging pots and pans outside their houses on Thursday evenings rather than wondering why healthy adults were sat at home while the economy was being destroyed

I thought it was Boris that introduced the LD's and it was Boris that got us to clap etc for the NHS?

Nimbys turning up with placards to protest about commercial and residential developments in their area and then complaining that there no houses or jobs for their kids locally

No point building houses locals cannot afford is there? Boris isn't building social ones but ones that are bought by private landlords

Even harder nimbys moaning about nuclear power stations and then in the same breath complaining that energy bills have gone through the roof

Unless the energy market is altered, doesn't matter how many power stations we have, energy is a global commodity, as is oil & gas and priced accordingly, so despite 50% ish being produced by renewables or north sea - we pay more than our european counterparts.
Plus Nuclear is extremely expensive, look at the amounts we will be paying for Hinkley C.

Complaining about the NI increase and then protesting that you might not get an inheritance because your parents have to sell their home to pay for their care

The money isn't going to social care for several years or for extra staff... hence the discharge issues & the staffing issues won't be fixed, sticking plaster politics.

Anyone who agrees with with what you wrote is just another blue rinse Tory, whose voting choices have contributed to wrecking the country.

YANBU. We moved to a European country for DH’s job just before Brexit and now we just thank our lucky stars we got out before freedom of movement ended. Every time we go back to the UK to visit, it seems increasingly run down and depressed. Our quality of life and long term prospects here are far better here than they were back in the UK.

You know this is because we were a major colonial power, and aggressively ruled 25% of the world. Part of our legacy is making English the most spoken language in the world and stamping our culture and religion all over theirs. Many of these countries education systems were introduced by us. And spoke of the motherland. People feel a connection then to the UK, and feel they know it. This has been deliberately perpetuated by things like the commonwealth, the Royal Family and the British Council who actively maintain these links and make people feel connection to uk in order to benefit our trade routes. Throughout this the main benefactor has been the UK so wasn't so too hard done by that people actually want to come here after years of us convincing them that we are somehow a friend to their country.

It’s shocking to me that Boris is still in office. At this point what would he have to do? Kill a baby on live tv to be thrown out?

Agree with this. As someone looking in from the outside of the UK, it really is both shocking and baffling.

Yes, tory voters (often rural) are the biggest NIMBYs of all. It’s actually a major problem for the party and why it’s so constrained whenever it tries to implement big infrastructure projects.

Odd conflation of political demographics there.

Our public services here are the absolute pits. NHS, social care, social security, education, and everything that goes along with them are the most under resourced I’ve ever known. That’s not to say they’re worse than other countries, I’ll be honest I don’t know other countries well enough to compare. Services that are privatised are also being encouraged to run their provision into the ground whilst charging as much as physically possible in order to generate returns… all encouraged by the governments who have tried to attract businesses through low tax environments and poor emphasis on workers rights which again contribute to massive inequality and low quality provision.

Completely agree that the objective of the government and many before them seems to be to preserve these wealth gaps, and preserve the assets of individuals who have wealth… which includes pretty much anyone who owns a home or lives off a pension (some of which for this generation of retirees are enormous by the way!!) to be quite honest.

In terms of taxes though, we only ever talk about income tax here without acknowledging the endless advantages for people whose wealth comes from other sources, unearned income and capital gains, as well as the notion that big corporations can come here and contribute virtually nothing to society.

Personally I think taxes have to go up but I don’t think we can physically tax workers much more. It needs to come from other places and people… corporation tax, higher capital gains, wealth (including primary residence - its ridiculous that people can make as much money as they do from their homes whilst paying no tax on the gains whatsoever) and inheritance. All need completely reforming, especially wealth and inheritance taxes… which should go directly into improving public services for future generations.
Those who say well it’s my money I earned it and I should be able to pass it on to my family but then complain about the state of public services are part of the problem and compound inter generational inequalities which will create greater intra generational inequalities … everyone wants someone else to pay but won’t stump up themselves.

Problem is under current environment, the more money is put into public services, the more private companies who sell into them will try to cream off. Eg NHS… they’re charged multiple times what a private company would pay simply because it’s poorly run and publicly funded.

Inequality is being compounded by corrupt and short sighted governments and local officials ALL over the UK, not just in Westminster. And there is zero appetite to improve things. I voted conservative all my life until the last five years, and I now think that wealth redistribution is one of the only answers to where we are. But not from richer to poorer directly, nor from people to profits… but from more sources and more people, directly into better training and more staffing for public services. If we had better provision for everyone we would all feel more wealthy, we need to remember that wealth isn’t just about what we have in the bank. Rant over.

@Fairisleflora this is exactly how my BF describes Norway. She’s Italian and is discriminated against for jobs. I don’t envy these countries, however, the UK is fast becoming a shit hole on every level. As a nation, we have acquiesced to a corrupt government that has nothing but contempt for the non-elite.

After this I want to vote labour BUT I just can’t bring myself to do it because they shoot themselves in foot with woke behaviour… not being able to define woman for example. This is a really important point for me. And that is why I’m politically homeless. As are many in this country. And why we end up with this crap place and ultimately why I don’t trust NHS and pay for private healthcare for my family at a cost of £220 a month.

@Directorlevelmaybe completely agree, Labour have and always will be defined by who shouts loudest, whether that’s the unions or in this case trans rights. They’ve zero backbone and just seem continuously shackled to protest groups without any clear vision or policies for what the country needs in the long term. I want to vote for them but can’t, and KS has zero authority… I can’t see him standing up to anyone. He’s done nothing but miss open goal after open goal when he could have made a difference

I feel like pp’s have visited a different Malmo to me. I spent a couple of weeks there a few years back and it reminded me of Milton Keynes! A small town centre surrounded by acres of housing estates. I didn’t like it at all. The family I stayed with “warned” me not to go to certain areas as they said they were no go zones due to the immigrants. Now it’s quite possible they were being racist. But it shows you the mindset and the division that exists.

We end up as we are because people don't vote for change... so under our electoral system we keep getting the Con's.

"Woke" means caring about other people, not just yourself but is now used as an insult.

I don't like Labours current stance on Trans and have written to them asking why, however i absolutely hate that women fleeing domestic violence, either have to go back to their abuser or live in dangerous and unsanitary housing.